Thursday, 16 August 2012

  • Why I Don’t Like the “Born Gay” Argument


    Let me begin by telling you about myself. I’m a Chinese American female, world-apathetic parents, five one, close to overweight, probably exhibit signs of a Napoleonic complex, like 90% sure all of my important romantic relationships will be with guys, assign different types of trust to each of my friends, and tend to seem rather tired if one met me on the street somewhere.

    In high school, my AP US History teacher, a loud and unpopular girl in the year below me, my bisexual/asexual best friend, myself, and a bunch of other people kick-started the school’s comatose GSA. We organized a faculty meeting, interviewed students, created gift baskets and visited the Ali Forney Center, and made events surrounding the Day of Silence that included going around with paper hearts for people to sign and stick on a designated poster on a designated wall, and fundraisers with informational booklets.

    We had speakers from the local gay community come in. There was frustration and school board bureaucracy. It was pretty legit. I’m almost positive I got into college at least partially because I had all this stuff to list. Also, Academic Decathlon. It pays, in medals, to have a low GPA sometimes.

    At that time, I was fairly certain I was in the S part of the GSA like the majority of the girls we had.

    It’s really only come to my attention this summer that I’ve probably been in love with a girl since 8th grade. I had pushed her out of my life rather violently in sophomore year for reasons that I couldn’t really make sense of (not that I was trying too hard) until now, and we had just sort of reunited in July.

    It wasn’t an apologetic reunion; we just caught up and took a walk in the park. It was nice and nerve-wracking and I think I adopted a very shaky tone for nearly the entire 4 hours we talked. (It might just be psychological because every time I ask someone if my voice is off, and I have some terribly blunt friends, they have no idea what I’m talking about.) And then I went home.

    Afterwards, I realized I had taken her out of my life because I couldn’t see myself being able to follow her down the road she was going. I questioned my decision, because I was still in love with her.

    Now, it’s not like I couldn’t go for it. She’s not in a relationship and she’s also bisexual. My boyfriend of a year and a half and I are downgrading to a friendship starting this fall because he’s going off to college and I’m staying home for it. And we’re not highly emotional crazy kids, so relationships in-between, even though we’re convinced we’re in love, are highly recommended. Also, he wants me to hook up with a girl so bad. I just don’t really want to.

    It’s not about denying myself for my family or anything. I know that I’m still in love with her, but I don’t want a teenager’s relationship full of drama and pain.

    While we weren’t friends, I’d hear over and over about her dramatic male and female relationships and I don’t doubt she’s grown since college started, it hasn’t been that long. Besides this girl, I’ve never really felt attracted to girls at all. I think it’s stupid for shows like Glee to have a character like Santana, whom I adore otherwise, who falls in love with one girl and then assumes she’s a lesbian. It doesn’t work like that, at least not all the time.

    There are definitely people out there like Michael Buckley of the WhattheBuck Show on YouTube who know they’re gay from the time they’re little, the “born gay” people. I think Tyler Oakley and Kingsley have similar stories. But when I hear people using the argument, “Why would you CHOOSE to be gay? Of COURSE they were born gay!” I think about how much that cuts out of the human spectrum and how ignorant it is of world influence.

    I don’t disbelieve that there are genes that influence sexuality, but I’ve never once believed that there’s a specific gene that can be switched to hetero, homo, or bi. Sexuality is so much more than a handful of terms and labels. There ARE people who choose to go down the homosexual route, even though they might have felt attraction to the opposite gender. There ARE people who choose to go down the heterosexual route, even though they realize the effect the same sex might have on them.

    People get angry at the word “phase” but phases happen. The environment tends to be more powerful than genes when it comes to cognitive emotion. The island of Lesbos was teeming with bisexuals before Greek Christians tore the place apart. It doesn’t make sense that it was ONLY genes and not the community that contributed to that.

    And it hurts, that if this type of imperfect sexuality is played out in the media, it’s for laughs or it gets a negative reaction (Glee again, Blaine and Rachel kiss, Kurt gets pissed, Blaine kisses her again, no sparks, therefore: no harm, no foul. Seriously?).

    It hurts that I’m not a common enough situation to care about. It hurts that I feel like not choosing her is hurting a cause my friends and I belong to and it hurts that if I tell any of my friends about her besides my boyfriend, I’ll feel obligated to act on feelings I don’t want to act on because it’ll help prove something to someone, and if I don’t, it’ll be taken like I’m afraid of the feelings when it simply isn’t true.

    Have you been in such a situation? What are your thoughts?

Comments (57)

  • T3hZ10n@xanga

    Idk. That photo is fucking hot.

  • Nous_Apeiron@xanga

    I agree with your basic point that sexuality is far more complicated than a genetically determined on/off switch.  Sexuality is a spectrum along which heterosexuals, bisexuals, homosexuals, masochists, and furries all exist, albeit not very comfortably with each other.  And many of those categories are not mutually exclusive.  The factors involved are genetic, hormonal, psychological, and cultural.  That makes it very difficult to assign a single cause to a person's sexual decisions and say, "Aha, I understand them perfectly now!"

    Unfortunately, not many people can be mature in how they approach these issues and tend to be ruled by their own insecurties, which makes talking about it a real pain.  Hopefully as you get older it'll be less silly and dramatic to deal with these issues.

  • laytexduckie@xanga

    Regardless of whether or not people were born gay or went through a phase, I think it's up to the person to really know what they want. In the end, it's the person's final say of whether they are straight, gay, or bisexual. I understand the point you are trying to make (and it has a lot of logic behind it), but mainly, I think it's up to the individual's point of view and what they know they are. 

  • jenigrins@xanga

    I'm with Michel Foucault on this one.
    http://curiousrantsofawannabephilosopher.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/tumblr_lkgdlprscg1qa1c6so1_5003.png

  • UnconventionalButterfly@xanga

    What i'm more worried about is that you have feelings for somebody while you're with your boyfriend. To me, that's emotionally cheating no mater the gender of the "other person". If you know you're going to break up why stay together, deny your feelings for this girl and what could potentially end up being a great relationship?

  • olwd@xanga

    @T3hZ10n@xanga - That is a Russian pop group called t.A.T.u.  No idea what it means.  I love their music and they are cute as well.  :)

    OMG, does that make me bisexual?

  • olwd@xanga

    This is an interesting post and I agree, I don't believe people are born gay, that is just ludicrous.  That's like saying they are born murderers, or born presidents.  Come on, see my point?

    If you truly feel something for this girl, don't shove it in a corner and forget about it.  That is what being young is all about, "explore".  I mean come on, you only live once and there is no reason to live with regrets.  I'm not saying you have to marry the girl, in fact you can stay in the perverbial closet if you are uncomfortable with it.  I'm just saying, enjoy life to the fullest.

  • P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga

    I'm not attracted to the same sex and don't want to be with or be like any females. I really want to have one of those freaky friday movie mind/soul switches with a super hot guy with a nice looking penis I don't want to be a transexual or transgender, I want to be a natural born hot guy with my own sexual organs not transplants or surgeries. I think I mean that I want to repossess my super hot boss' soul and be him that's quite creepy. I have a crush on him and want to have sex with him and I also want to be him and have sex with me, although I'm not really me anymore since I repossessed his body, and he'd be in my body instead, so it would be some trippy body switch that I find very hot just thinking about I need to consult with harry potter on a magic spell. brb.

  • T3hZ10n@xanga
  • T3hZ10n@xanga

    @olwd@xanga - A little bit. Just an artifact of a continuum effect. Doesn't matter.

  • T3hZ10n@xanga

    @olwd@xanga - As @Nous_Apeiron@xanga said, "Sexuality is a spectrum...". A spectrum that includes the "dimension" of time (I hate that people refer to time as a dimension) is a continuum. To put it simply, sexuality is as fluid as you allow it to be. If you don't have sex with females, you're not bisexual.

  • SexyKhoiFish@xanga

    @T3hZ10n@xanga - I was reading the post and when I finished, I thought, "Now lets see what super serious, pseudo-offensive comments there will be." I saw yours and I laughed. a lot. 

    Anyways, personally, I think the whole"born gay" argument is just the simple answer that people want - the simple answer that they prefer; the thought of homosexuality simply boggles their mind.  Those that try to accept it do so by veiling it in a thin veneer of Nature, of birth and genes determining a person's sexual orientation.  I think they believe that because it takes the blame off of themselves, the family and friends of the homosexual person in question. It takes the blame off of the people that ridicule him or her because if it's truly Nature, then that means it was their society that forced them to be gay. 

    There is no blame - no wrong in this equation. It's already against evolution for us to choose emotional love over substantial needs such as wealth and power, but we seek that evasive "true love" nonetheless to palliate the loneliness.   We chose to love the people that we love despite their physical frame, intellectual capacities, personality, stature, fortune - we can look past a wealth of characteristics when we try to define love. 

  • notinwonderlandanymore@xanga

    I think sexuality is too fluid to put a label on. I mean, pretty much everyone who claims they're 100% straight can appreciate a good-looking person of the same sex, and vice versa with people who claim to be 100% gay. I don't necessarily think you're born one way or the other, but I also don't think you can choose which gender you're attracted to, just like you can't force yourself to find someone attractive. I don't think people in countries like Rwanda (where homosexuality is punishable by death) would choose to find people of the same sex attractive if it wasn't something they had no control over.

  • T3hZ10n@xanga

    @SexyKhoiFish@xanga - "It's already against evolution for us to choose emotional love over substantial needs such as wealth and power, but we seek that evasive "true love" nonetheless to palliate the loneliness.   We chose to love the people that we love despite their physical frame, intellectual capacities, personality, stature, fortune - we can look past a wealth of characteristics when we try to define love."

    And we do so for a good evolutionary reason.

    Sexual selection requires a randomizing factor to be most efficient (and "worth it", evolutionarily speaking). That's why females evolved males. We're an evolutionary catalyst.

    One of my favorite movie quotes, mostly because if you understand what I said above, you can easily see how incredibly ominous it is:

    Dr. Ian Malcolm: How do you know they can't breed?

    Henry Wu: Well, because all the animals in Jurassic Park are female. We've engineered them that way.

    http://www.anyclip.com/movies/jurassic-park/a-hatching-egg-1/

    Skip to 1:40

    I hear that quote in the back of my mind whenever I stumble upon some incredibly ominous yet ubiquitously overlooked fact... "Well, because all the animals in Jurassic Park are female.".

  • olwd@xanga

    @T3hZ10n@xanga - LOL, a little Bi.  LOL  oh dear

  • olwd@xanga

    @T3hZ10n@xanga - Ok, well that answers the question.  But even thoughts of kissing another girl has got to be in the realm of times continuum.  LOL, I have no idea what I just said there.  Actually sounds like the movie, "Back to the Future".

  • olwd@xanga

    @daydreams_nightmares@xanga - Wow, so happy I don't live in Rwanda!  Yikes!

  • T3hZ10n@xanga

    @olwd@xanga - Unless they make you uncomfortable, there's nothing wrong with thoughts.

    The mind is the "sandbox mode" of the body. It gives you the opportunity to experiment without having to experiment and choose to be the person you want to be.

    http://youtu.be/isAxtjTwbQY

  • oneLBcloser@xanga

    I used to hook up with girls... I even thought I was a lesbian for a while. I guess for me it was mostly a phase. I got sick of girls pretty quick. I am just not cut out to deal with their bullshit on that level. Having close girl friends is hard enough.

    So I guess I chose to be straight. I do find myself a lot more attracted to guys than I was at one point... but at that point almost all my sexual interests were completely different. People evolve. I still hit on girls when I'm drunk, and sometimes fantasize about them, but rarely.

    I think you can realize your sexual orientation at a very young age, even too early to remember a time earlier, but I don't think it's a gene. My gay friends argue this with me all the time. Most of who you are as a person is not genetically predetermined, even if you feel you have no control over it. No you cannot control who you are sexually attracted to. But you can:

    1. control who you actually do sleep with

    2. learn from your past and become turned off by things you once looked for in a partner

    Some people would consider me a lesbian, some would consider me bi-curious at best. Does it really matter what you call it? Just do what feels right to you. And if it starts to feel wrong, you can always stop. You don't have to force yourself into a box (hehe) just to fit the definitions you've been given on sexuality. It's fluid, it evolves, it isn't black and white and it isn't genetic.

  • olwd@xanga

    @T3hZ10n@xanga - Nope, doesn't make me uncomfy at all. 

  • youthinasia613@xanga

    When I hear people using the argument, “Why would you CHOOSE to be gay? Of COURSE they were born gay!” I think about how much that cuts out of the human spectrum and how ignorant it is of world influence.

    It sounds like you just have a problem with the phrasing:  while I agree that it's probably not *just* genetics that determine a person's sexuality, the argument of "born gay" is that people cannot help who they're attracted to.  And while I agree that environment plays a huge role in it -- I think that's why a lot of gay men got married and had kids "back in the day", -- genetics (or whatever) also plays a strong part because that led to a lot of unhappy marriages & divorces since...y'know, they were gay & couldn't help it.  

    I'm sure there are also people who've had homosexual experiences and gone on to lead otherwise heterosexual lives (and vice versa), but nobody documents them because these people are confident enough in their sexuality to know who they are and not let that "one time at band camp" mess with who they know they are.  

    Basically, it's up to you to determine how you identify yourself because no one else can know what's going on inside your head; other people shouldn't be labeling you so don't let them tell you what you are / aren't.  (I guess you missed that part in the episode where Blaine basically says that to Kurt after he gets mad about the kiss w/Rachel)

  • HerCarelessWhispers@xanga

             Eh....I don't know. Honestly I think it's a fact of both heredity and environment working together. We're shaped by external influences as we grow even if it doesn't feel right to us at the time.
    I think sexuality is more complicated that Straight, Bisexual, or Gay. I've fallen in love with girls and guys, but not because of their gender; because of who they were on the inside. I identify as pansexual,honestly.
    And for example, Chaz Bono had a girlfriend while as Chastity, and they were still together when he was transitioning. It didn't make his girlfriend gay or bi or whatever. It made her a person in love.

  • everyonesaweeniehead@xanga

    You're just confused. The answer is simple: did you CHOOSE to fall in love with a girl in the eighth grade or was it something that just happened? Maybe that doesn't make you permanently or exclusively gay. But it definitely means you need to reevaluate what being straight means to you. 

  • AnonymousXGrl@xanga

    As a bisexual female, I think people tend to be born gay, straight, or bi.  I know many gay people who were obviously gay from the time they were young. I grew up with them, and looking back, there were signs they were attracted to the same sex. Growing up, I felt terrible guilt for being attracted to both men and women. Being bi is definitely not something I've chosen, but part of who I've always been.

  • VampireOfSeduction@xanga

    The "people don't choose to be gay" argument stems from the emotional aspect rather than the physical aspect. I realize everyone is different, but who has ever said, "Damn, I really, really, really wish I were attracted to her but I'm just too damn straight. I guess I'll have to work harder at being a lesbian. But every time I think about going down on a girl, I want to puke. I'm really going to have to work at that."

    Acting upon one versus the other doesn't mean you don't have the capacity to swing either way. It obviously means that you do have that capacity if you had to make a choice.

    It's not even that there necessarily would have to be a gene that is the decision maker for someone to be born gay or straight. Hormone levels pre-birth also play a roll in our sexual/gender identity. Even in the womb, we are exposed to the "nurture" aspect in the nature vs. nurture argument.

    For some people, sexuality is fluid. For some, it's completely rigid. Heck, even rigidity and fluidity can change within the same person.

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