Monday, 18 June 2012

  • What Usher Meant By "Not Enough Men"


    To those who are about to comment on how long ago this was, I know this is mighty late, but it still bears explanation.

    Does anyone remember a year or two ago when Usher said, "the reason there are lesbians is because there aren't enough men to go around?" I must admit the first time I heard it, I didn't get it either.

    But the more I think about it, the more I think that he didn't deserve the verbal ass-whooping that people gave him on AOL and everywhere else. I realized that he meant to say that some women become lesbian because men aren't trying to be good men to their women anymore. It had nothing to do with the amount of men there were, it had to do with the amount of guys who can even consider themselves "men."

    Even if this may not seem the least bit true to those who are gay or lesbian by default, I have been noticing something pretty funny within the community.

    Has anyone kind of noticed when a girl or a boy suddenly turns bisexual? Perhaps it's only me, but I think when you are in high school or old enough to notice your sexuality, you should have a good clue as to who you are already, no? But in my experience, when some girls turn bi (as opposed to simply being bi), it's mostly because men don't really put in the work to turn on, to romance, or to convince their woman that we are even worth the time they give us.

    Maybe the sex wasn’t good, maybe they don’t do those little nothings for them often, etc.

    As for the women, it seems like for most of them, there is some kind of romance that they're talking about. (By romance, I don't just mean love. I mean a certain charisma.) Most girls are nurturing, loving, soft and beautiful in their very own way. It feels like they put in some kind of effort to be what some won't be.

    Now, I’ve always been one to shake my head whenever readers constantly fail to look at the context below what someone says. I personally don’t blame them as much seeing as how Usher’s words could have meant anything, but what he’s trying to say is that to get a woman to like you or to think you are worth their time, it would help to be more of a man.

    Thoughts?

Comments (30)

  • pnrj@xanga
    You fail sexual psychology forever.
    People don't choose their sexual orientation. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this never happens. Or if it does, it's in 0.01% of cases at the most. 

    The vast majority of lesbians are lesbians because they've always been lesbians---their brains are wired that way, probably genetically. The vast majority of gays have always been gay. The vast majority of bisexuals have always been bisexual. If you didn't know it, it might be that they just never told you (seeing as how homophobic you're being, I don't blame them). Or maybe they didn't even realize it themselves---heteronormativity is so pervasive that you assume by default you are straight until it's conclusively proven otherwise.
    As it is, there probably isn't this trend you imagine of men being less romantic or putting in less work in relationships (whatever that means). But even if there is such a trend, it's got nothing to do with women being lesbians, because that's not how sexual orientation works.
  • AmorVomnia7@xanga

    "Real men"?

    The amount of misandry that oozes out of such a phrase... Lets just say you could bathe in it.

    Also... My experience of women has been quite different. 'Most' of them are not nurturing, loving and soft. From everything that I've seen, they are no more nurturing, loving and soft than men are. The day that I finally admitted that to myself was quite an enlightening day.

    It was enlightening in how it taught me not to court women like I previously had. Because ultimately they didn't deserve to be given free meals just because they had a vagina. They didn't deserve to have the responsibility of the first kiss/sexual initiation fall on the man. Because they were no better than I was.

    Yup. Quite an enlightening day for me.

  • winterEnds@xanga

    Sexuality isn't a spectrum of Gay or Not Gay and maybe you're bi inbetween by choice, it's much more fluid than that. You can be attracted to men and women but not be openly bi to other people (society has a hard time swallowing sexuality, it's "Taboo" even when it's vanilla and straight sex which is far more accepted.) It also has to do where you are in life, how open you are to accepting these feelings within yourself and who you are willing to open up to. It's much harder for people to come out as bi because some communities don't accept the term as a type of sexuality-- the wording "turn bi" or "choose to be bi" is fallacious because this assumes that the person was always straight just because they chose partners that were of the same gender previously. 

    It's like saying just because someone never has a boyfriend or girlfriend their whole life they are asexual. It's just not the case. 
  • winterEnds@xanga

    @AmorVomnia7@xanga - instead of putting people in boxes of "women should do this" or "a REAL man would do that" I feel like it's best to treat people on a case by case basis. Some women want to split the bill 50/50, some men will cry more than their female partner, some men want to be the sole provider for their family, some women will make the most income in a household. Gender roles really do more to confuse and constrict than to clear things up. I don't think it's a matter of "women don't deserve" or "I deserve because" but rather, find someone that has the same ideals of how a relationship works and date them. 

  • JustTheseWords@xanga

    @pnrj@xanga - This may not be how sexual orientation works.  However, this may be how people may experiment with their sexuality.  Everyone is different and has their own preferences and concepts about sex.  There are people who have sex with both sexes merely because it's pleasurable, not necessarily because of a certain label they consider themselves to be.  And so on and so forth with all the other "labels" and self definitions out there. 

    Blue Skye - I definitely understand how you're interpreting what Usher is saying.  It's definitely not something painfully literal.  He's oversimplifying becauseof the "simple" solution.  And that is for men to try harder as much as women are worth. 

  • P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga

    I wouldn't go lesbian even if I was in the I hate men phase; I'd still drool over the hot bodied gay men I like having a human shield or literal knight in shining armor in the form of 6'4" khal drogo*meez about to faint thinkin of this warrior* some women could probably still protect me like a human air bag:D the toned arms of warrior men hugging me feels like those rollercoaster straps around my shoulders and feels more safe. soft arms are comfy for hugs but it gives me the chills since I'm thinking of being hugged by the marshmellow man from ghostbusters. creepy. soft body parts generally repulse me because I'm thinking of them lined with fat. this is weird because I have soft body parts, so does that mean that I hate my own softness I probably wouldn't hug myself and would get slightly buff before I hug my alter-ego idk but I wouldn't be affectionate with women. I might have a thing for straight jacket hugs that hug me so close that I can feel his testosterone electrifying my body

  • TheNotoriousGOD@xanga

    i think i've learned to pick out which posts are yours based on the title alone. 

    @winterEnds@xanga - so i think you're agreeing with @AmorVomnia7@xanga, right?  he's saying that women don't deserve special treatment, and you're saying that all people should be treated as individuals, and not part of a group. 

    my budget for my first two dates with any girl is $6.

  • winterEnds@xanga

    @TheNotoriousGOD@xanga - I think people shouldn't assume anything of either gender, rather, find someone with similar preferences. 

  • TakingxOverxMe@xanga
  • UnconventionalButterfly@xanga

    Wait....what? People don't chose their sexuality. 

  • methodElevated@xanga

    I don't think it's necessary or productive to police people's sexual orientations, and that includes their individual reasons, experiences, and timetables.  I prefer to just go along with whatever labels they presently decide upon for themselves, even if those labels have changed.

  • RealistFantasies@xanga

    @pnrj@xanga - people can absolutely choose their sexuality, people do it all the type, so comment irrelevant.

    @UnconventionalButterfly@xanga - there are people who choose their sexualities.
    there's a speech/quote given by cynthia nixon about her choosing to be gay.

    the rhetoric of "born this way" doesn't actually help, since it still implies that if it was a choice they'd be foolish for choosing it or would have chosen otherwise because being LGBTQ is the lesser option.
    i'm not trying to pick a fight, i'm just saying, i didn't choose to be bisexual, but even if i had there would be nothing wrong with that, and the "born this way" rhetoric completely erases the experience of and leaves out/doesn't defend or help people who did choose that lifestyle.

  • RealistFantasies@xanga

    he absolutely deserved the backlash he got for saying this.
    this is just a grossly sexist, homophobic thing to say.
    all people deserve respectful treatment, but it has nothing to do with gender.
    a woman doesn't choose to be a lesbian or bi because men aren't manly enough, that doesn't even make sense. if they wanted someone butch, okay, find a masculine man or woman, but you're saying it's because there's something wrong with men being feminine it sounds like, or because men are all the same. both wrong.
    women choose or are there sexuality for a number of reasons. most don't actually involve men.
    not everything a woman does is because of men, it's not the sole motivator, and it's grossly misogynistic to assume it is.

  • harleyy93@xanga

    And the reason there are gay men is because there aren't enough good women?


    Women who are gay or bi aren't that way because men did something wrong/they couldn't find a good enough man, they are that way because they like women. Belittling them, saying that they'd be straight if they found a good enough man is absolutely ridiculous.  
  • mynameisblueskye@xanga

    @pnrj@xanga - Read what @JustTheseWords@xanga said about my understanding of it.

    This has nothing to do with saying it's a choice. At all. Ever. Everevereverever. Those who got that out of my posts have missed the point, as per usual.

    It's me pointing out that some women (keyword: some, or rather a few) move on to women after the men started failing. I have heard and seen something like that happening. Even saw some kind of threat like that on Mancouch. (My defense was if you are going to threaten to be a lesbian because we are a little hard to swallow, you probably were never straight to begin with. That or they should really toughen their skin.)

    I didn't say that in order to sway a lesbian you have to be a better man. We KNOW that's a stupid conclusion. I AM saying that perhaps we need to be a little better because there are women who suddenly turn lesbian because of some of the things we do. And while we are on the subject of "turning lesbian", if there is anyone who treat it like switching from team to team, it's them. Why can't they just come to grips with the idea that they might be bisexual from the get go? After all, it's not like things are going to completely change just because you changed teams.

    @TakingxOverxMe@xanga - Look, I know we haven't really been seeing eye-to-eye on my posts. I try to decode the little nuances of man-women intereaction that is hardly ever covered, and you often disagree with my observations. Let's just agree to disagree on the fact that you aren't happy about my need to use Datingish to talk about those little minutiaes of dating, especially when it come to my Renaissance-like hunger to rid this world of the whole dating double standard.

    Now, I don't know what problem you may carry of this post, but I'll assure you everything I wrote here was well-thought-out and, yet again, based upon both my observations and a good idea of what context he means by what he says. I assume Usher wasn't dumb enough to think the reason there are lesbians was literally because there aren't enough men on earth I think he knew what he was trying to say, and we took him kind of wrong. If everyone stopped taking shit at face value and really thinks about what the speaker is trying to say, I bet there would be less beef between comment and reader.

    @RealistFantasies@xanga - It all depends on not only context, but what he has observed amongst women. I can't say I knew exactly what was his point in saying that, but my point here was assuming that he wasn't trying to be a dumbass and chalk it up to population, machismo or a supposed sexual potentcy men hold. I assumed by men, he was trying to differentiate a man and a boy.

  • mynameisblueskye@xanga

    @harleyy93@xanga - What you just said (the first sentence, anyway) is exactly what I said the first time I saw it on AOL. You know? I still need Usher to eventually set this record straight in an interview or something.

  • RealistFantasies@xanga

    @mynameisblueskye@xanga - but by saying that it's because of the difference between a man and a boy, he's giving all sexual power to men and that's not okay. he's saying that all of women's decisions sexually rest on men.

  • UnconventionalButterfly@xanga

    @RealistFantasies@xanga - Why do you always bug me? There were plenty of other posts before mine that said the same thing. Go preach to somebody else for a change.

  • lovelife

    Hi, I think I know what your getting at but I don't understand what you mean, and how you differentiate between "being bi" and "turning bi." From my experience, and I do have it, being/turning are just two stages along one path, you can't be one without the other.

  • RealistFantasies@xanga

    @UnconventionalButterfly@xanga - and i mentioned it to the other person that said it that i saw.
    it's not preaching, it's pointing out a fallacy in your argument, on a public post, during which i told you i wasn't picking a fight.
    you don't need to be fucking rude about it.

  • discover_hienie@xanga

    i would never turn gay no matter how a guy was trying me.. sure we may think sometimes about
    being with someone who truly understands us, but it doesn't mean that i would do that. there aren't
    enough good men out there

  • WaitingToShrug@xanga

    I'm not so sure about that. Look at the number of single women out there who are still trying to date guys, even though they can't find one they like. The reason they can't find one is irrelevant, the point is, they've been single and disappointed somehow every time, and they still aren't going for women. 

    I think women choose to go for women because they like women. Even if I couldn't find a guy I like, I still would not start dating women... because I'm attracted to men. 
  • poetrybox@xanga

    Who the heck cares what the heck Usher means? 

  • wing_stock@xanga

    I agree with your analysis of what Usher meant but disagree with what he said. The underlying assumption--what most people are attacking--is that bisexuality is a choice for some people. Though I noticed it has become almost a trend in recent years among experimental younger age groups, a failed relationship cannot be the sole catalyst for someone to switch to another team overnight. In other words, the connection between trying out another orientation when your current partner fails is not a straight causal connection: people can simply just try it out for fun. I've heard of threats of becoming lesbian because a partner isn't adequate, and have jokingly said similar things in the past myself, and I'm sure anyone who said it will not seriously follow their words.

  • mycontinuity@xanga

    Even people who are only attracted to one sex would probably change if they were put in a different environment. In all-girl schools, girls develop crushes, nuns start to like other nuns in convents, and in jail people's urges sometimes overcome their straightness. 

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