Sunday, 10 June 2012
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My Rant Against My Know-It-All Friend Who Thinks He Understands Love
Recently, I hung out with a friend who repeatedly made disparaging comments about long term relationships, marriage etc… He is convinced that people in long term relationships are stupid and are not really happy (of course conveniently ignoring or maybe trying to take a slight jab at me since I am in a long term relationship.)
I just simply said that all people are different. Some people can be happy in long term relationships, some aren’t. He wasn’t too convinced and continued to make cynical remarks, despite the fact (puzzlingly enough) his parents have been happily married for about 30 years, which he admits they seem pretty happy.A lot of people who are staunchly against long term relationships/marriage are either a.) hurt too much by past experiences (but I’ve found many of those people can be rehabilitated) or b.) they’ve never been in an actual long term relationship or had any real experience with romance.
Those who fall under the “b” category are usually the worst offenders. (Just to note not ALL people who’ve never really experienced romance are cynical. In fact, I would say most aren’t.)I think those who are cynical towards love AND in the “b” category are that way because they are bitter. They’ve never been in a real relationship that’s lasted. They watch lots of people break up and get hurt so they start to get this smugness “Ha! I’ve never been hurt and I’m better for it!” And the older they get the more critical (and angry towards people in relationships) they become.
They hear about people making mistakes and falling in and out of love and they say “HA! YOU FOOLS!” As if they know better. As if their lack of experience simply makes them “smarter.” As if they “chose” to not be in a relationship because they are so “smart.”
But how can they even know or understand if they’ve never even been in those people’s shoes? Honestly, if you do not have experience, why dole out advice on something you really know nothing at all about?Whenever I hear about people having issues with their relationships, I don’t rush to judgment, because while I have relationship experience it doesn’t mean I necessarily understand EVERY issue in relationships.
All relationships are dynamic because every person involved is different. Sure they can be some guidelines on what is a successful relationship but it’s not the end all be all; different things work for different people.So as you can tell, my friend falls under the “b” category. He’s never had a relationship. I’m not really sure he’s ever kissed a girl. There’s actually not much wrong with him so I’m not sure why he’s never been in any kind of romantic situation. But I think with every passing year (he’s now in his late 20s) he becomes more self-conscious of his “lack of experience” and in response he has the following defense mechanism:
“Obviously I’ve never been in a relationship because I CHOOSE not to, because relationships are dumb and only stupid people do it. And it’s a waste of time that prevents you from being successful and satisfied in life. After all it just leads to break-ups and what not etc…” Which is silly because he knows plenty of people who are in relationships and successful and happy. Perhaps he wants to convince himself they really aren’t?Ultimately, I think the smart thing to do is if you do not have much experience in romance or relationships you should give advice in a limited capacity. Just like I wouldn’t ever try to dictate an opinion to a surgeon regarding some complicated surgery he is about to perform, simply because I have watched live surgeries and looked up procedures online. That would be dumb.
I may suggest options but I wouldn’t act like an authority on such a subject. I wouldn’t give absolutes or make sweeping conclusions. (ie. “Everyone who is in a long term relationship isn’t truly satisfied.”) The same goes for people who lack experience in romance, why act like an authority on a subject you have never experienced?I guess I’m just frustrated. But do you agree? Shouldn’t people gauge their knowledge base and then respond accordingly? Or are you just like my friend, who thinks he knows everything despite lack of experience?
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- From: theasianwithnoname@xanga
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Comments (30)
People are going to say what they want to say, regardless of what they know and don't know. That's just a fact and nothing you do will change that. People just like to talk, sometimes too much and stupidly so. Best thing to do is not put too much into it.
Similar skills are needed to foster deep platonic connections, so I think the idea that you have to have a romantic history to understand how romantic relationships work is a bit flawed. I know I was consistently asked for advice about them long before I was in any - and by friends with considerably more experience at that.
I think the issue with your friend isn't that he's giving an opinion on romance when he's never experienced it. I think the issue is more that he's giving an opinion on romance without a good working understanding of why he has that opinion and the things that are making him biased about the subject (ie, his emotions toward it). There may have also been an issue with the context/way in which he stated the opinion in question and/or how you interpreted it (Were you asking it explicitly or implicitly, or did he volunteer it? Was he trying to give advice? What was his tone like - matter of fact, dismissively, sincerely?)
That said, I do disagree with his statement, and I do think you make some correct assessments about some of the mindsets in the group you're talking about. Based on what you've said, it seems to me like he's building up a wall against the idea of romance in order to avoid getting hurt.
Just tell your friend to shut up. Not because you're sick of hearing it, or he doesn't understand, or because he's bitter or cynical. But because he's being rude and no one likes a cry-baby.
I'm a little bit of both. There are definitely those times that I just can't understand why a person wouldn't do whatever it is I think is best if I were in their situation and I definitely feel that frustration and want to give them advice, but I know what you mean when it comes to lacking experience. Sometimes it can be even more frustrating not understanding why a person would do whatever it is they're doing instead of what I think would work (better). I've always felt that people will do what they want regardless of my advice, but at the same time, I know advice should scale to the situation. That is to say, if there is a fire in a building, it makes sense for a person to yell at everyone to evacuate, but if it turned out that the person just saw a lit candle for the first time, it would be rather annoying.
I bet his hand wouldn't even give him any.
some people have different priorities and being in a long term relationship/marriage or other types of relationships in general or flings or whatever else might not be on the top of their to-do list. I think my boss is one of those, who probably focused on his academics, so that's why he is so successful and rised to the top so quickly and he's only in his 30's
while maybe others were consumed by relationships and drama, which I know some can balance both relationships and career,etc, but how many of those have achieved so much in what seems like so little time by mainly being focused on his/her career
maybe those people, don't really care about status as much as my boss did and that's their choice. my boss is married with kids, too. he is way too balanced and seemingly too good to be true
he must be a perfectionist, which is why I have a crush on him
is your friend cynical because he doesn't have success in anything, not even his career? so he's overall bitter
if so, I used to know a few people like that, my previous coworkers, who had to make everybodys' life miserable because they were miserable. they can't stand that others are happy. a majority of my new coworkers are happily married or in relationships, and my work environment has changed a 360, and have been more pleasant, because I actually enjoy going to work and be surrounded by the happy people since I'm happy, too
if I wasn't in a relationship and felt singled out compared to the people around me, then I'd probably react like your friend. it depends on the circumstances. if he isn't happy, then do something about it. if he's happy as is, then don't be trying to spread the storm clouds.
A lack of firsthand experience does not diminish or invalidate the advice given. If you want to consider the validity of the advice, assess its merits, not the experience of the messenger who delivers it.
i don't think anyone will be surprised to hear me say that i'm also not the biggest fan of relationships (to say the least). but holy crap. your friend is almost 30 and hasn't kissed a girl? tell him to take his balls out of his purse and dip his fucking wick already. i totally understand that he's self-conscious about it--i have 2 friends who are 26 and 29 and both just lost their respective virginities this year--but that's not an excuse for him to be an annoying little bitch.
it's just gonna be a positive feedback loop. as he gets more annoying, girls will be less likely to want to fuck him. the worst kinds of people are those with attitude problems. (oh, and sober chicks at clubs. they're also annoying as hell and have some sticks up their asses.)
Tell him to get over the fact that pretty girls don't like him. haha I'm sure that's really his issue.
But I do believe someone with no direct experience maybe able to give a different point of view from the outside in, I wouldn't rule that advice out. However, it's tough to be around cynical people all day, that's probably the biggest issue here. Good luck!
“Obviously I’ve never been in a relationship because I CHOOSE not to,
because relationships are dumb and only stupid people do it."
I'm sorry, but does anyone else feel like this is something an elementary school boy who still believes in cooties would say? While some of his reasoning does make sense, it's immature to refer to everyone who gets into long term relationships as stupid people. People want different things with their lives and want different experiences. Who is he to say that another person isn't truly satisfied with their life and their relationship?
Besides, it's a part off human nature to want companionship. As the saying goes, humans are social creatures. You don't need to have romantic experience to come up with valid reasons as to why a person shouldn't date, but don't you DARE tell me I'm not truly happy with someone I love. Unless it's something extreme like an abusive relationship, then no one but I have the right to decide whether or not I'm happy.
I feel sorry for the people who've never been given a proper chance at love and then lump all people together -- the ones that lump get on my nerves. Perhaps that's their problem, because they think everyone will treat them the same -- that's why they are never able to find a good relationship because they let one or two bad experiences ruin it for them. There are over one billion people in the world, I highly doubt all of them will produce the same results every time. Beggars can't be choosers either.
I've always wanted a long term relationship and I sort of have one now, it's just without the title so I don't know what to call it but we do coupley things so it is basically like a relationship just not labeled. Considering all the cards that I've been dealt with before that and one-sided flings, I'm happy with this and I actually enjoy this person's company.
I don't know why people like the games when it comes to dating or why there are people who like to cheat. It takes more effort to lie to two people instead of telling the truth and being faithful to one. Guys are always complaining about women and their "PMS" now why on earth would they go and have two relationships at the same time? Yes, I know girls do this, too, but I've mostly seen guys always say how women are so this way and that way yet they still want to have many girlfriends at a time to deal with three times the problem. I don't get it.
I was physically and emotionally abused by guys in the past, but I didn't let those bad eggs get to me to find someone who knows how to treat women. I highly doubt some of the known cynicals on here *cough* were physically abused the way I was, but you don't see me throwing in the towel because of the thought that most people will treat me the same. I'm throwing in the towel because I can't stand the mind games before you get in a relationship to get into the actual relationship. I like being straight forward without beating around the bush.
Hmm.... my only relationship I had then left was long term.... so... i can't comment on which is better. Me personally though, I think we were happy -- he just didn't know it. ha ha. so now that I'm gone, he keeps telling me that he misses me... even though... he is the one who said he didn't want a long term relationship. But... 6 years? I don't think he realized we were together for that long.
this website is very good, you can go and see it
http://www.shoes4world.com/
So after you read you entry to yourself and review the comments written here, think to yourself if you feel betters having to rant, or if this entry doesn't help and that you may have some insecurity issue you may want to assess about yourself and from there, strengthen yourself.
You seem overly critical of your friend. Long term, serious, monogamous relationships aren't for everyone. Some people simply know this about themselves. Saying he can't comment on whether or not long-term relationships are right for him is like telling a gay guy he can't comment on whether or not sleeping with women is right for him, just because he's never done it. Some people know what they want, some people don't. Is your friend a tactless asshole? Maybe, maybe not. That's not the point.
Maybe some day he'll fall for some girl and spend his life with her and you can tell him how wrong he was. Maybe he'll never have a long-term relationship and you can tell him he was scared all along. Maybe you'll end up getting a divorce, end up jaded and cynical, and change your mind about relationships. Who knows? Just because you've had different experinces than him doesn't make you right and him wrong the same way that me loving straight sex doesn't make gay guys who have never tried it wrong about their preferences.
@Edeline_Wrigh@xanga - I actually agree with you mostly. Like I said, it's one thing to give an opinion it's another thing to act like an authority on the subject. Especially when you have zero experience.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - I disagree. The source of where your opinions come from does carry weight. As I said in the post, it's one thing to give or form an opinion but another thing to act like an authority on the subject. Especially with zero experience.
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - He just seems bitter overall. It might be just his personality developing into something quite unpleasant. Also I'm very successful despite my "monogomous-ness" haha. Moreso than him. But I think in his case the source of his "bitterness" is not really me but his overall lack of luck when it comes to love.
@tictact0e0@xanga - Actually I continued my rant on my own site, http://theasianwithnoname.xanga.com/763984544/to-the-single-and-cynical/ to explore the source of my frustration.
@sarahsmurfette@xanga - Oh no I don't think he's interested in me. lol.
@manUfan420@xanga - I don't think you understood the post; I said right in the second paragraph: "... all people are different. Some people can be happy in long term relationships, some aren’t."
And I didn't say he couldn't comment at all; as I said directly in the post, it's one thing to form an opinion, it's another thing to act like an authority on the subject especially when you really have no experience to back it up.
@theasianwithnoname@xanga - It's a fallacious appeal to authority by using firsthand experience as a standard. A lack of firsthand experience does not invalidate the merits of the advice given at all. The strength of the advice is based on the relevance to the situation as well as the reasoning upon which it is based. That's like saying you wouldn't listen to a kid when the kid tells you to wash your hands with soap, simply because the kid isn't a world-class infectious disease expert.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - That’s just a silly analogy. Washing hands is a common sense thing, very different than experiencing love. Here’s a better analogy: Most parents seek parenting advice from other parents. Because they know firsthand what it’s like. Those type of experiences matter and what you learn from it only comes with experience. Sure maybe a single, childless friend may give some good advice on parenting. But a more reliable source would be from someone who’s actually been through it. The same goes with relationships. Going through a relationship is very different than just observing it from a third person perspective. It doesn't mean a single person who's never been in a relationship can't give advice but they shouldn't act like they know everything about relationships when they haven't even been in one. Should I act like I know how to be a parent even though all I've ever done is babysit? What if I spent a whole summer babysitting? Not the same thing.
@theasianwithnoname@xanga - It's a very relevant analogy as it describes what you are advocating. And while it may be common knowledge for you and I, not everyone around the world understands what an infectious disease is.
"Here’s a better analogy: Most parents seek parenting advice from other parents. "
That doesn't necessarily prove that all parents are better at childrearing than non-parents are simply by virtue of having the experience of being parents. If you want, consider child abuse statistics and the number of children that die from neglect or just plain old stupid parenting.
The point is that dismissing someone's relationship advice because of their bad experiences, good experiences or lack thereof, is stupid. If you want to dismiss it, dismiss it because the advice isn't relevant, or it's not built on sound reasoning or evidence.
"Going through a relationship is very different than just observing it from a third person perspective."
And that is why many people go to third parties, including those who lack experience, or have a very different experience with relationships.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - Again you seem to misunderstand my point. I didn't say you can't give advice. I've taken advice from perpetually single friends before on relationships. I said you shouldn't act like an authority on the subject. Pretty simple and not so outlandish as you are trying to make it out to be.
@theasianwithnoname@xanga - And my point is that you shouldn't dismiss people's advice based on their experience, which you said you disagreed with, saying (bold emphases mine):
"The source of where your opinions come from does carry weight. As I said in the post, it's one thing to give or form an opinion but another thing to act like an authority on the subject. Especially with zero experience. "
"I said you shouldn't act like an authority on the subject."
How does one act like an authority on the subject? Do you believe there is a fine line between giving advice, and acting like an authority? Or is the divide larger?
@QuantumStorm@xanga - It already says in the ORIGINAL POST that people can give opinions. They shouldn't act like the authority. And in the ORIGINAL POST in the second to last paragraph I say "I wouldn’t give absolutes or make sweeping conclusions." At the end I give an example of what it means to give an opinion and what it means to act like the authority in the "field." It's right there for you to read. Try to comprehend.
And as I have been saying the source of one's opinion does carry weight, which is why people who are parents will seek advice from other parents, or parents of autistic children will seek advice with parents from autistic children, or divorcees will seek advice from other divorcees. It doesn't mean that NO ONE ELSE can give them advice but obviously they seek out people who are going through similar circumstances because those experiences do teach you something that a third person perspective does not. A third person perspective is oftentimes a limited perspective as noted in my ORIGINAL POST.