What I'd like to know is why the hell is it expected that guys pay for dates? Why did that ever become the standard practice? Why is it still practiced today in a modern, civilized society that for the most part no longer believes in gender roles (and rightly so, because they are a load of crap)? Whatever it is, I don't go for this garbage.
I'm sorry, but expecting me to pay for dates (and especially the first date) just screams to me that you seem to have a sense of entitlement. I'm sorry, but you do not. Being a woman does not entitle you to any special rights or privileges despite you thinking it does.
Even for those who will pick up the second date, who's to say there's going to be a second date anyway? If there isn't, you just screwed me out of a meal, and I get nothing in return. Money doesn't grow on trees you know, and my job (even though I love it and can't imagine doing anything else for a living) just doesn't pay that great. I've got a budget too, and I don't have the funds to just be spending money aimlessly on other people, and especially when I'm not sure if that investment will return itself in the end.
You see, here's the thing with me: first date we go dutch. Just like I refuse to pick up your tab, I don't expect you to pick mine up either (and I will outright tell you no if you try to). That way if there's no second date, no harm no foul. I didn't lose anything but a few hours of my time and the cost of my own meal which I would have probably bought for myself that week one way or another. From thereon, we'll figure something out (either we continue to go dutch or we alternate paying for dates), but I expect you to pay for your share one way or another. It's not up to me to pay for everything.
That said, there is one exception to this. In 10 to 15 years' time when I get promoted to Captain I'll be making a six-figure income and can afford it. If you just absolutely cannot afford to pick up your tab (and I understand that there are situations like this), I will graciously do so as I'd have the funds to do so. However, if you can afford it, I still expect you to pick up your part, and don't you lie to me and say you can't. To me that sends a message you're only interested in my money and not me.
Nonetheless, this is just the way it is. You want equality in a relationship, here you go. This is equality. Period, end of story.
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This is, I think, another downfall of "formalized dating" - it's mired by traditional bourgeois rituals that do not actually speak to our modern generation, especially the lower-middle class and the working poor.
I've always felt that person that does the asking should pay. If I ask a man out to dinner, I ALWAYS pay. If he tries argues with me I say well then, we'll have to do this again so you can pay....with a smile.
I think that it should be paid for by the person who asked the other person out on a date. It is an invitation to go out with you, not the other way around. Now if you are just meeting up to hang out and it is not a date then both parties should pay for their own meal.
This I can agree with. Sometimes equality comes with a price--literally.
dating is just glorified prostitution, as everyone already knows. you either play the game or don't get laid. i know what my decision is...
Best article I've seen in a long time on here. I couldn't agree with you more. Paying for a woman's meal also sends one of two messages: a) "This guy is so desperate and needy that he feels the need to pay for me to win my approval.", and b) "If he's willing to pay for my dinner, I bet I can get him to pay for a bunch of shit for me. He can be my new credit card since I've maxed out on mine!"
In other words, guys, just DON'T DO IT!
If you ask a person out to dinner (as a date), you should pay for it. If a person asks you out to dinner (as a date), he or she should pay for it.
It's really not that ****ing hard to understand.
I think that on a first date, it's just being a "gentlemen" offering to pay for dinner. "Gender roles" aside, it's just a nice gesture. Many women nowadays are modern and would be happy to offer pay, but there are those, that aren't feminist to any extent, who want a man to do "his" part, and she will, in turn, do "her" part.
Simply, everyone just lives their lives differently.Are you dense? The reason why gentlemen were taught to pay for the date was women, even up to the early 20th Century, couldn't work outside the home. How do you expect a woman, who society wouldn't give a job, to pay for even half their date?
This tradition, of course, has a myriad of reasons including the fact that a man respects women because women carry children and give birth. I know you don't care about that because you don't really want children. Whatever ill things you wish to think of women, the fact remains men can't give birth and as such should respect women for that fact. (I don't care that some women are infertile, blah blah blah).
Feminism and equality was fought for in regards to equal rights and protection under the law. The right to pay for a meal because 1) a woman chooses to 2) a woman has a job. This means men still have the right to be a gentleman and treat a woman like a lady. Thankfully such men still exist in this world.
So, if you don't want to pay for it all, fine. But if you do get married who will be washing the dishes? Washing the laundry? Mending your clothes? Scrubbing your toilet?
@TheNotoriousGOD@xanga - lol What if you don't have premarital sex, then it can't be prostitution can it?
@Chibi_Son_Gokou@xanga - No, paying for a woman's meal says... "I know how to properly respect women."
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - Good point! And only wash half his socks!
Who thought of it? The same people who came up with the idea that mean should be gentlemen, protecting and honoring women, should be showing a woman what she is looking for in a husband and father to her future children. The kind of man who wants to be with a woman because he desires to know her and is willing to court her to do that. The same man who doesn't want sex before marriage, but rather wants to honor marriage and protect a woman's purity. The man who says "you are worth my time and money and I am going to pamper you because I think you are that special". It may seem backwards and idiotic to you, but a LOT of women realize that they want this deep down. And this is exactly the kind of man I am looking for.
Nothing wrong with being a gentleman!
I used to offer to pay for everything in the past. However if I was dating now, I'd probably only offer to pay if I initiated the date.
I've had too many instances where I paid for things, only to get a "Dear John" talk two weeks later. And at that point, you have wasted my time and my money without me getting anything in return. I know some people think this is a very cold way to look at things, but until there's some sort of deeper mutual emotional connection, you are simply two individuals (possibly even strangers) who are getting to know each other and as such you owe nothing to each other. Until that connection is made and you would move the world for that person, dating is simply another investment of your resources, and if my return on investment looks poor or nonexistent, then I'm going to take my resources and invest them elsewhere.
The way I see it, if you are just 'hanging out" with each other, each to their own. However, if you're on a date (and YOU initiate it), you pay. Just as I would pay if I had asked someone out. NOW, if you had asked me out and expected me to pay (for my own tab), you're a fucken cheap ass and wouldn't get a second date from me. I have absolutely no problem for paying for my own tab or taking turns (on dates), but don't ask me out and expect me to pay. That's super rude.
@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - I wash my own goddamned dishes, I do my own goddamned laundry, and I clean my own goddamned house (at the moment). When I'm a rich captain I'll hire a professional maid to do so. My spouse would never be required to do all of that. Next questions please.
It's still a gentlemanly thing to do and decent woman appreciate such a gesture.
In my personal opinion, whomever asks the other person out should cover the date. Or if it's just hanging out then both pay their own. But yeah.
Is that how you invite someone to something? I like the idea that whoever asked should be willing to pay. When I was single, I had a man who had no job, no car, and still lived at home ask me on a date. His idea was that I would pick him up, drive to the restaurant, pay my own way and then take him home. I was supporting four kids on my own at the time and would have had to pay a babysitter too, and he also was aware of this. I simply told him if I had to do all that, what did I need to get him for? I can go buy myself dinner any time. I have never been a single adult without kids, so that's all I know. But I feel pretty sure that even if I did not, even if I had a lot of money coming in, if a man approached me, invited me to dinner and a movie, and expected me to pay my own way if I accept his invitation, I would turn him down.
I doubt there will be a second date for you.1st impression is everything, you make yourself look cheap.
since when was it such a horrible thing to do something NICE for someone you're interested in?? jesus fucking christ!!!
Well, I still like to pay for a first meal because I like to. I mean, I don't even do it for just dates. Sometimes, I just feel generous and I buy dinner for some of my friends. Just like you, I don't make a lot either, but I still learn that generosity is a great thing to have. I just cut the line when I know someone is taking my generosity for a ride i.e. gold digger.
Hmm, I like to pay if possible-- I don't really like other people paying for me.
But, when he INSISTS on paying; then I will accept because otherwise I will just look ungrateful!
(I mean, what are you supposed to do, if he insists on paying? Act like a bitch and be all NO YOU AIN'T PAYING FOR ME and create a scene in whatever place you're in?)
The guy I'm dating right now seems to want to pay though, lol, on our first date, I paid for the movie tickets and he paid for dinner afterwards.
But on the second date, he paid for the movies tickets (I offered) AND dinner (I tried to insist!)
Really, I can tell he's just being a gentleman, and I do appreciate the gesture, AND the fact that he let me pay for the movie tickets on our first date.
HOWEVER, on the third date, I am paying come hell or high water, dammit.. hahaha :P
@NightCometh@xanga - Yes, it is idiotic to me, because my ideal woman is someone who is career-oriented, independent, responsible, and most importantly childfree. (seriously? Children are so gross, ugh!!!)