Thursday, 07 July 2011
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The Virtues of Infidelity
Last week I was reading an article in the New York Times magazine about Dan Savage and his view of non-monogamy, entitled The Virtues of Infidelity. I found it incredibly thought provoking, and wanted to share a few excerpts here on Datingish (read the full text here).
It opens with a meditation on the never-ending Anthony Weiner scandal: "[Weiner's] visage was insisting, night after night, that we think about how hard monogamy is, how hard marriage is and about whether we make unrealistic demands on the institution and on ourselves."
“I acknowledge the advantages of monogamy,” Savage told me, “when it comes to sexual safety, infections, emotional safety, paternity assurances. But people in monogamous relationships have to be willing to meet me a quarter of the way and acknowledge the drawbacks of monogamy around boredom, despair, lack of variety, sexual death and being taken for granted.”
Treating monogamy, rather than honesty or joy or humor, as the main indicator of a successful marriage gives people unrealistic expectations of themselves and their partners. And that, Savage says, destroys more families than it saves.
“The mistake that straight people made,” Savage told me, “was imposing the monogamous expectation on men. Men were never expected to be monogamous. Men had concubines, mistresses and access to prostitutes, until everybody decided marriage had to be egalitarian and fairsey.” In the feminist revolution, rather than extending to women “the same latitude and license and pressure-release valve that men had always enjoyed,” we extended to men the confines women had always endured. “And it’s been a disaster for marriage.”
Do you think that monogamy is (un)realistic? Would you be willing to discuss the possibility of giving permission to your spouse to go outside the marriage, if he or she needed something sexually that you weren't comfortable or capable of providing?
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- From: ThatBirdisAbsurd
- About Me: I just moved to New York after studying and living abroad for five years in Canada, Europe and India. One amazing thing about being back in America: knowing EXACTLY how to say what you want to say, RIGHT when you want to say it. English makes dating a lot easier.
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Comments (52)
when someone is mine, i expect them to be ALL mine. not shared. so i couldnt allow it, personally. monogamy has worked well for many people so it is realistic if people are commited to one another. nowadays i can see monogamy being questioned with how there are more outlets for people to meet other people. therefore infidelity is quite easy to happen, as in the anthony weiner case.
thats why you need to marry someone with the same values. sex is important. make sure you're ON THE SAME page with that as well as everything else.
people get too hasty this day and age. i cant even comprehend how someone can become so into a person they dont have much in common with. that blows my mind, i could never do it. let alone marry them???? hhhhelllll noooooooo...
I never had a problem with being monogamous in the past relationships. So, no, I don't think it's unrealistic. It depends on the person and if they were to meet someone, they have to either let them know upfront whether or not they would wish to remain monogamous or wish to delve around without it causing any strain on the relationship (whatever that relationship may become).
I think monogamy is realistic for some people, and unrealistic for others. It's not entirely a gender issue. Each individual has to decide for him or herself what is best for his or her life, and go about relationships in ways that won't hurt anyone else. Be respectful and mindful. If you're monogamous, polyamorous, or anything else, find someone (or multiple people) who want the same things as you do. Don't pretend you're something you're not. That usually leads to misery for all parties involved.
I think it's unrealistic to think that monogamy will work for ALL people. But I think it's a poor excuse to use the theory that men are not "meant" or "expected" to be monogamous. Why not? Because they used to have access to prostitutes and concubines? What about the women; were they bound to only ONE man because by choice or by force?
No one "expects" their spouse to be monogamous, it is given. When you commit yourselves to each other, no one draws out a list of RULES to be "okay" to behave with and "DEFINITELY NOT" allowed during the lifetime of marriage. Yes, as a society, there is more discussion and doubt of being comitted to ONE person other than yourself, if not, there is a disasterous divorce ahead... I think you just have to meet and love someone who loves you back with mutually understood respect, committment and conversation. Of course sex is important. But so is knowing that when you're with your significant other, you are the only person that matters, not that he's wondering how someone else feels like and compare.
When I'm married, I'm married to my ONE fiance. If I never thought we were capable of being committed to each other to get to the stage of being MARRIED, then we should have dated more or considered an exit long before we walk down the isle and say "I Do."
@methodElevated@xanga - I agree with this 100%.
It's not a gender thing - it's a person thing.
I have a boyfriend and a girlfriend. My girlfriend has a boyfriend. Everyone knows about this... so it's fine. But no one feels ignored, and no one's being forced into it.
Some people are more wired for monogamy or polyamory. I can do either, but not everyone can. It's not unrealistic for two people to be monogamous - unless they aren't wired to be.
If you believe in monogamy, then you don't need to be in committed relationships.
if it isn't realistic for some people, then simply don't string people along and then cheat on them because he/she was selfish and greedy. just remain a bachelor/bachelorette and have as many friends with benefits/flings as they please with other singles. don't get into committed serious monogamous relationships, then complain that it is restricting and unrealistic
they want their cake and eat it, too, is what it is...they want the stability of a committed relationship while being sneaky and disloyal at their own convenience to be with other men/women. if monogamy isn't possible for the individual, then don't drag other people along, who are monogamous.
no, I wouldn't allow it. why get married if we're not going to be fully committed to each other?!
These comments are so full of arrogance.
It's totally realistic, imo.
Fact is, if I'M not good enough, and can't provide what you 'need' sexually, that you feel the need to seek out other partners.. well then WE aren't a good match.
I guess I'm kind of serious about a 1-on-1 partnership, I'd never be 'comfortable' with the idea that my spouse has other partners.
In fact, it's bloody absurd.
Oh, woe to me, I can't bang three chicks on the side?!
IF YOU LOVED ME YOU'D LET ME BANG THOSE OTHER THREE CHICKS, you heartless bitch!
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga -
Agreed with this: "why get married if we're not going to be fully committed to each other?!"
It may be unrealistic for people with commitment issues but honestly, I equate that to immaturity. If you want to get married, then be prepared to be tied down for life. If you want to have children and raise them in a healthy environment, be prepared to be tied down for life. If you don't think you can do that then you shouldn't get married. It should also be something you tell your partners. Even if you aren't planning on marrying your boyfriend or girlfriend, they still expect you to be monogamous - so if you aren't planning on being faithful then you should say something. 9 times out of 10 that person won't stick around.
People are monogamous because sex isn't just SEX for most people - sex has deeply rooted emotions attached to it - for example, LOVE. For most people, the thought of someone you're sleeping with sleeping with someone else is heartbreaking. So, do I think monogamy is a ridiculous demand? Absolutely not. It's based on whether or not your partner acknowledges your feelings and actually cares about hurting/pleasing you.
If you want to be a polygamist, more power to you. But good luck finding someone in modern times who will accept your lifestyle and STILL want to be involved with you.
A disaster for marriage? All I have to say to that is if you can't keep your dick or your vag in your pants, you don't deserve to be in a relationship with someone who believes in monogamy. I do know that there are successful relationships out there that are not monogamous; polygamy is popular in many countries. However, for me personally, cheating is fucking repulsive. Before you get into a relationship, lay some ground rules. If you can't agree on them, compromise or SOMETHING, or just don't get into it with each other. It'd save a lot of grief.
Do you think that monogamy is (un)realistic? For some, it's not. For me, it's very realistic. When someone is mine, he is all mine. I'm not okay with sharing and I don't want to commit to multiple people at once.
Would you be willing to discuss the possibility of giving permission to your spouse to go outside the marriage, if he or she needed something sexually that you weren't comfortable or capable of providing? Absolutely not. That would never happen. I'm engaged and he already knows how I feel about that - if you want to have sex with someone else, divorce or break up with me. We already laid our ground rules, and feel the same about them.
what the fuck us UP with our generation?! i knew polygamy was going to be a new "fad" now a days... but if people really feel that humans aren't meant to have just ONE mate, and want to have multiple, i say to each there own... but i'm personally old school and i believe you have that one soul mate. damn-it, i'm going extinct...
People are fucked up, not the institution. If you as a person choose to not expend any effort sexually or emotionally, then you're the one who's screwing up.
It's realistic for my boyfriend, but not me.
I'd give permission to avoid anal sex again.
A lot of people do fine in monogamy and I'm one of them. Though I do think it depends for a lot of people and what their views on relationships and sexuality are. No, it's not unrealistic and no I wouldn't let my bf do any of that, because I don't want that.
Though I do think the important thing before stepping into a relationship is making clear the expectations and ground rules about it. For my bf and I, we are monogamist. Simple as that. We knew that from the moment we started dating, but if that changes, the relationship will break.
@Shy___Away@xanga - I don't see how, it seems like a lot of people commented just fine.
Haha, I've been thinking about the issues of polyamory and monogamy for a while now. And I finally decided that although I personally will find it impossible to like someone else once I've already fallen for someone, if my significant other don't feel complete or fulfilled in any areas (be it physical, emotional, or mental) then I have no problem with being in an open relationship with him.
Love should be free and pure. Consciously suppressing infidel emotions (an accidental crush on someone else, for example) due to fear of hurting your significant other or losing your secure relationship is untrue to your Self and your partner.
First of all, I think that humans have a presence of mind and will power to be able to resist any behavior they WANT to. If you don't WANT to be monogamous, you won't try to be. If you WANT to, you will. I refuse to believe that people CAN'T be monogamous. They can stick to monogamy if they valued monogamy over their own sexual desires. But of course, if you don't value it then your sexual desires take priority.
With that said, I don't think monogamy is "natural" in the sense that it comes easy or is the first instinct. But I think it's right for me and my husband...esp because we are Christians. If you don't think it's right for you then that's fine. I just have a problem when people don't desire to be monogamous and then enter relationships with folks who want a monogamous relationship. You should be respectful and loving enough of people to allow them to find someone who shares the same values. I also don't like it when people use the "monogamy isn't natural" excuse to cheat and sleep around. It might not be natural but you also have a natural level of consciousness and will that allows you to chose your own behavior. We aren't cats and hamsters here, folks.
Man, the things that pass for thought-provoking... I found this to be complete and utter bullshit from start to finish. If you don't want to be monogamous, JUST ADMIT IT, don't try to justify it with pseudo-intellectual arguments.
I found more joy, humor and honesty in my marriage than in any short-term non-committed encounter I ever had. Joy, because we are able, through time and commitment to know each other completely. Humor because frankly, that's what experience and time together bring if you work at it. And honesty because, if both people have an honest heart going into the relationship, they will realize that an honest relationship is very important.
How does infidelity bring any of those things?
‘Truth Games’ http://is.gd/gAg3ZZ explores issues of infidelity in 1970s London, when the freedoms of the swinging 60s began to run into trouble. It’s the two blazing hot summers of 75 and 76, and a group of friends are getting way out of their depth in infidelity. Thought-provoking stuff.
I think Savage is genius, even though I've been saying it since I was born...Sex is something that should not be limited to one partner because it is a natural instinct that - as animals - we have and should rightfully listen to. I've only had one serious relationship, but it lasted eight - yes eight years - and we're still close friends. I owe it all to the fact we trusted each other to the point it was perfect to have a mutually open relationship.
I'm starting another relationship right now, and all he wants is monogamy...I can't say how long that will last. We both get bored very easily...
As for marriage...I don't believe in it. It's great for the economy though, with all the money it's bringing in - hair, tuxs, dress, flowers, planner, invitations, catering, cake...
i really don't understand all the 'animal instinct' comments. i thought we were more evolved than that. i think that's more of an excuse.
but, everyone is different. pursue whatever relationship that fits your values and your lifestyle.
i can enjoy being with one person for the rest of my life. it's all about finding that person that suits you and believes what you do. sex may be important, but it's not my main priority.
i don't feel like i'm limiting myself by having sex with the same person. everyone has that time period where they can go explore whatever they like. my main goal is settling down because i know i can fall in love with the same person every day. i do now.
Does anyone realize that it goes against our nature as humans to be monogamous? We as animals were never meant to mate for life like some other species. It goes against all biological reasoning.
As many people know, I am whole-heartedly AGAINST monogamy on so many levels. For SO many reasons. I'm glad someone else is finally spreading the word on it.
We were never meant to be monogamous, and somewhere along the past several decades, it seems like we have been tightening the reins on men and women (and watched divorce rates sky rocket).
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad that someone else (Dan Savage apparently lol) is also in the minority.
I don't think it's unrealistic, but I do think he's right that a lot of people don't really acknowledge that there are drawbacks to monogamy. They try to romanticize monogamy, but there are drawbacks to it, just as there are drawbacks to everything. But a lot of people will never admit this, so it's useless to try to convince them.