Wednesday, 18 May 2011

  • Black Women are Physically Less Attractive


    An evolutionary psychologist from the London School of Economics posted a piece on Psychology Today, in which he claims that black women are significantly less attractive than other women. Satoshi Kanazawa argues that our dark-skinned sisters, on average, are heavier than non-blacks. Their average body-mass index as reported in Wave III is 28.5 compared to the 26.1 among other women, while black men and non-black men don't have such a discrepancy in common (27.0 vs 26.9). Yes, he is claiming that black women are OBJECTIVELY less attractive.

    Here's a direct quote:

    "It is very interesting to note that, even though black women are objectively less physically attractive than other women, black women (and men) subjectively consider themselves to be far more physically attractive than others." - Satoshi Kanazawa

    However, this isn't the reason why the claim is being made, specifically. BMI aside, Kanazawa states that the level of testosterone found in blacks is higher on average. Since testosterone is a male hormone (androgen), it affects men and women differently. Taking his great scientific knowledge and putting it to the test on attractiveness, our great researcher postulates that due to the larger amount of hormones, black women are physically less attractive because they're more masculine in appearance. Black men on the other hand, enjoy the benefits of these higher levels of testosterone. Just ask Chris Tucker. His voice will surely give it away.

    Soon after being posted, the article was taken down (you can read the full article here, copy and pasted from the original source: click). Psychology Today's editor-in-chief didn't have a clear explanation for the removal of the post, other than the typical spiel about how they reserve the right to remove any article posted on the website. It's easy to imagine that the backlash the article has been receiving is really bad press, so it makes sense for them to remove it. There was one slight problem, though: The Internet. Before it was erased from the information superhighway, our trusted vehicles of righteousness and anti-Scientological sentiments captured the evidence in their rear-view mirrors; the trusty, almighty "PrtScn" key. It was like an L. Ron Hubbard novel gone awry.

    Should we be raising our pixelated torches and marching down this decrepit, webbed road at 56k modem speeds? Does Satoshi Kanazawa bring up any valid points?

    Yes (not the valid points part). If you have enough free time, anyway. Otherwise, this idiot isn't worth anyone's troubles. Let me bring up a couple of points which completely invalidate Kanazawa's "study," in which he even uses "intelligence" as a statistical control. If science can now prove that the intelligence gap between races is almost exclusively hereditary/genetic in nature as opposed to socio-economic, I've been living under a gigantic, "dumb big" rock for the past 24 years.

    The Journal of Endocrinology and Metabolism states that:

    "Contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men." - The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 92, No. 7 2519-2525

    To further bring home the point that differences in testosterone levels between races aren't notable, doing a quick Google search of "race and testosterone" immediately returned results from Stormfront, a white nationalist website, on the first page. We can conclude that the same goes for women because it's partly our genetic make-up and the testosterone levels present in our parents which determine our own levels of concentration, not race.

    What exactly is "black" anyway? That's a really broad term, and you can't pin down any common traits if you take all people who are considered to be black worldwide. Simply generalizing "Whites" or "Asians" is the same deal. This is a major flaw in the study. Black women vary in facial features and skin tone just as much as any other race. Just take a look at the huge variation that exists between Nigerian and Ethiopian women, for example.

    What about the notion that "black features" are unattractive, and the more Caucasian a black woman's features are, the better looking she is?

    This is less scientific than it is a product of conditioning, especially in the West and in India. As much as you want to deny it, the standard of beauty dictates that the closer you are to being a prototypical white woman with straight hair, colored eyes and a fit body, the higher your chances of being viewed as attractive. Skin lightening creams have been HUGE in India and sub-Saharan Africa for a long time now, and in places such as Haiti, the lighter your skin is, the more upper-class you're perceived to be.

    It's even present in Japan, more specifically in their video games and anime. While the characters may have facial features more akin to Japanese men and women (not in all cases), their eyes and hair are usually Western in appearance, including color. Certain Japanese fashions also rely on dyed hair and color contact lenses, giving them a similar look as well.

    Similar to Haiti, it's more of a class issue in Asia. People with darker skin are viewed as inferior because it's associated with field workers (the poor), while the upper-class would remain in the shade or indoors. It's not as pronounced in places like Thailand where there are many dark-skinned citizens, but generally, the whiter you are, the better off you are. It's not a race issue, rather classism.

    Most apparent of all, Christianity painted Jesus white with blue eyes, and gave him long hair along with a frail, girly figure. That's pretty close to the desired Western look, although Jesus was in all likelihood darker skinned, if the Bible is to be believed. Nowadays, the look is being adopted by "hipsters" and vegan hippie women everywhere.

    Here's a scene from the 1989 movie Chameleon Street, which depicts the mental conditioning that has taken place within our society: Click me.

    As I've explained, the study is clearly flawed and was gone about in a completely ass-backwards manner. Testosterone isn't really the issue here, it's perception. It's the media and the standard of beauty. If we had been conditioned to find pot bellies attractive, you better believe beer would be a popular addition to breakfast cereals everywhere.

    While nothing can really be done about this, we still have our own likes and dislikes. When you begin to generalize, you get black-listed like this bullshit "evolutionary psychologist." Believe it.

    Edit: Psychology Today has redeemed itself by posting a rebuttal to Kanazawa's piece, written by Mikhail Lyubansky. He pretty much says everything I've already stated, but since I'm not being featured on Psychology Today, my post has no credibility and I'm wrong, so here's the link:

    What are your thoughts on the matter?

    Sincerely,
    Nuñez Love Doctor.

    Certified with a PhD in Scientology and Bullshit.

     

    P.S.

    Expect an "attractive black women" post soon.

Comments (240)

  • Frankenchrist@xanga

    @meaganbme93@xanga - yea, only in your opinion cuz you're with her, when i see her, well *barf*

  • TheNotoriousGOD@xanga

    ohhh my god, the people who are going to complain about this are the same people that complain about all his articles (most notably, the recent article that attractive people are more intelligent).  unfortunately, i didn't get to read the original article, since it's apparently been pulled off of the PT website. 


    i'm going to go ahead and make the claim here that i am the ONLY one who has commented (so far) that actually knows how he ranked attractiveness and intelligence--and this is because i actually read the last paper he wrote (which, by the way, i recommend everyone do if they're going to criticize something that a researcher writes).  his sample population was many thousands of people that were ranked in attractiveness and intelligence, amongst other things, using a subjective system WHICH HE ACKNOWLEDGES IS SUBJECTIVE.  using intelligence as a statistical control was perfectly scientific and had nothing to do with race.  the author did not claim that testosterone levels were the reason, he conjectured that it "might potentially explain" the cause. 


    as far as what the op said, the theory that white girls are ingrained as more attractive to us is completely legitimate (though yet to be proven).  my favorites will always be the dark-skinned south indian girls though <3

  • MassiveVortex@xanga

    I think beautiful people can come from any race, size, or testosterone level. Just sayin'.

    Also: looking forward to that attractive black women post
  • lilblucherrygrl@xanga

    Ill admit I don't personally find most black girls attractive. I don't think they are ugly either, it's just not my preference. Though I do find black men extremely hot. My boyfriend is black and a lot of his black male friends usually say they would never date a black woman or they usually don't find them attractive. But I believe it's mostly because of their experiences with them, which clearly have not been good. Ill admit I've had more shitty experiences with black women then good but I'm not going to be an idiot and generalize.

  • Kazydai@mancouch
  • laytexduckie@xanga

    Silly. Why bother with "beautiful" studies when beauty is based on personal preference? Every person is beautiful to someone or some others. 

  • mynameisblueskye@xanga

    Let's just hope that BlackVoices or any other black-run site doesn't come across this "find" on Psychology Today. For dang sure, let's hope that it isn't found on the latest issue of PT that I just bought. There will be hell on every angle waiting to break loose. ANd if it doesn't break loose, there will be another Daily SMH segment in the wings.

  • mynameisblueskye@xanga

    @AsylumBlue - I guess no one saw my Mancouch Obsession: Black Women Edition. So, I'm looking forward to the list of attactive women list here.

  • RestlessPhoenix@xanga

    @TheNotoriousGOD@xanga - Thank you for your comment.

    I did not read this study. I will not say the study was conducted well, is "reliable," or say I agree with the results (other than, if asked, my own preferences - which aren't the point, anyway). Otherwise, as a psych major who's learning how to do these things and what the results *actually mean*...

    One thing you have to understand is: social psychology (which is what this is, by the way) is a branch of psychology that deals in painful truths. Things like... Not everyone is "beautiful," society does have some (more or less) universal standards as to what is "beautiful," and "beautiful" people will get further in life. Furthermore, some of these standards are universal across societies (how many societies have embraced, say, pimples as the epitome of beauty?).

    Next, remember that -you're only seeing part of the work- in the above snapshot. You aren't seeing where (or how!) he got his sample, you aren't seeing the demographics of his sample (were they suburban housewives? Different generations? Different races? In different countries?), and you're certainly not seeing the nuts and bolts of his data analysis.

    Now, the OP states that "race" is an elusive identifier, and it is - sort of. But not enough that we can discount it. Genetic diseases are more prevalent in some groups than others (sickle cell anemia, for instance, is more prevalent in people with African descendants), and there ARE certain biological differences in chemicals produced by different races (like, say... melanin?). While it is certainly true that there are shades between "Black" and "White," we're not misleading ourselves to postulate that people further on one end of the spectrum produce more of something than people toward the other end.

    On subjectivity ~ Yes, beauty is subjective. Yes, the author used some subjective terms (which he supposedly admitted to using). And - yes, it might be that the people's biases were shaped by the culture they're in. Here's the thing though - if we're assigning values of "beauty" to something - it's BASED ON the values of beauty in the culture. It's subjective from person to person, too, but... it's an average of the culture's opinion. It's understood that there are outliers. Is the truth of the average painful to hear? Probably, but that doesn't mean it's not something that's useful to know.

    Lastly, remember this is one paper in the midst of many. The next step in research in this field would be to do related studies - maybe other places, maybe more specific, maybe on related topics - to determine what this means in a broader context. This study found that Black women were rated as less attractive - is that a statement on American culture? Western? Human biology? The best way to find out is to conduct this study and studies like it.


    Don't freak out, guys. It's just a study. Keep it in perspective.
  • Asinine_Dreams@xanga

    @RestlessPhoenix@xanga - @TheNotoriousGOD@xanga - Oh my fucking god. Thank you both SO much.

    I wish people understood how research and studies work and actually took the time to read the actual journals.

  • heart_leigh@xanga

    Well, this Asian woman thinks this guy's a moron. He, of all people, should understand what it's like to be denigrated as an Asian man. This article proves nothing. To all the black women out there, you ladies are absolutely beautiful - inside and out. Mr. Satoshi Kanazawa can shove it.

  • AsylumBlue

    @RestlessPhoenix@xanga - What it boils down to is that he got a bunch of random internet people to rate random people. Great sample.

    He also fails to state what makes a woman "black." We don't have the privilege of viewing the photos he used in the study. He could have easily skewed the results in one direction to support his personal views. And upon choosing said pictures, wouldn't his own prejudice or tastes come into play? That's the problem with using science to determine beauty, you can never get accurate results. Something as common and simple as acne? Sure. But there are so many different regions in the world with women of all shades with different facial features.

    What is he talking about here? I don't understand his reason for even conducting the study aside from getting a rise out of people. Where is his proof which conclusively states that black people generally have higher levels of testosterone? Where's his study for that?

    It's just not a sound study at all.

  • AphoticxIllusion@xanga

    @BloodIsLove@xanga - While we're on the topic.


    1. You're hot.
    2. We have the same birthday.
    3. Libras ftw.
    4. I'm a year older. 
    5. Call me. 
  • AsylumBlue
  • AsylumBlue

    @mynameisblueskye@xanga - I think I remember seeing that, haha. Link me? I might end up using one or two of your choices.

  • AphoticxIllusion@xanga

    @AsylumBlue - Just to clarify, I saw her first. 8D

  • let_the_right_one_in@xanga

    Studies have shown children have the ability to pick out the more attractive looking teachers. Certain proportions in the face garner more pleasing responses than others. It has little to do with conditioning from what I read and experienced.

  • love4meislove4U@xanga

    Personally I find black people very attractive so i didn't even bother to read this article. The title is just as uninteresting to me as a title like "men are more attractive" would be. I don't care if there would be a study demonstrating that. I mostly think women are more attractive, personally, and i will continue even if that would make me odd. Others might think differently, bless their memories.


    my spelling sucks, it's normal and it don't matter, okay.


    I also love chocolate.

  • TheNotoriousGOD@xanga

    @AsylumBlue - did you actually read the paper?  like i said, you (by which i mean anyone, not just you) can't criticize him if you haven't read the paper.  all you did was make a whole bunch of assumptions.


    he didn't take random people from the internet.  he didn't use photos.  he had REAL people rate REAL people's attractiveness using what i would consider to be a pretty granular scale. 


    and again, if you didn't read the article, then don't make claims that he didn't cite his sources.  this kind of shit is peer reviewed.  he'd have never gotten the article published if he made any unjustified claims.  he does his research at the lse.  that's one of the best schools in the world.  the guy's not an idiot. 


    anyway, whoever wants to jump on me can do so, just keep in mind that i get paid to know what i'm talking about.

  • TheNotoriousGOD@xanga
  • AphoticxIllusion@xanga
  • Axis_of_Doom@xanga

    I love all kinds of women, personally. 

  • RazorBladeParade@xanga

    There are ugly people everywhere.

    It's more attitude than anything that turns me off of someone.

  • mynameisblueskye@xanga

    @AsylumBlue - Here was my list that was born out of an idea that Mancouch went and ran with.

    http://www.mancouch.com/713554934/what-about-the-sistas-black-women-that-are-also-mancouch-worthy/

    Some of them are here and there. But if you have choices of your own, I'd like to see them. If you need help, ask me. There are a few sistas I forgot to mention that also defies Mr. Black Ain't Beautiful's theory. Meagan Good does that, too.

  • TheNotoriousGOD@xanga

    @mynameisblueskye@xanga - i realize you went for the more classy types, but i might suggest keri hilson and ciara.  does amerie count?  she's half korean but i think she's the hottest girl with sista blood in her that i've ever seen.


    i've been gunning to hook up with a black chick lately but my experience is that they kind of only want to hook up with black guys.  that's why i try to go out with one friend of mine in particular--she gives me street cred (she's black).

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  • AsylumBlue
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