There once was a time where men would pursue women in a very chivalrous way. Ah yes, "courting" was a fantastic mechanism-- men would spend their free time chatting up pale, straight-nosed women as they sat, ankles crossed, upon their red velvet armchairs.
If a man wished to ask a lady out, he would simply say so: "Miss, would you do me the great pleasure of accompanying me on a romantic outing?" And she would reply, peeking out from behind her lacy fan, "Why certainly, Mr. Witherby, I would delight in such an evening!"
Yes, I may have been reading too much Austen, but I can't help but wonder what caused the disentigration of such a fabulous, polite dating ritual. If men don't ask outright, how are we supposed to know what they want?
It seems like these days a man's idea of expressing his interest in a woman can range from the casual, "Let's get coffee sometime" to the wordless bump and grind of his frontal parts up against your dancin' behind.
Or, he can take the worst route possible: the ambiguous, indefinite courting request.
Now, this is where it gets tricky. With the way guys express interest these days, how are we to tell a friendly gathering request from a date invitation? Usually, you can tell by the way a guy asks.
Scenario 1: A guy asks you out-- it's not a date "Dude, Jessica, I can't believe Mr. Wong gave us an extension on that paper."
"Haha, me neither!" you squeal.
"Anyway, I'm starving. Feel like gettin' some food?"
Your heart skips a beat.
"Sure, Jake!" (Yes, I'm painfully saccharine and gave them both "J" names)
Now, there are no hard and fast rules for this sort of thing-- people are all different, and we can't generalize "all girls" or "all boys" or "all date invitations," but this here request is probably just friendly for
a few reasons: 1) it was made on a whim
2) Jake called Jessica "dude"
3) Jake didn't seem nervous at all
Scenario 2: A guy asks you out-- it's a dateA few months ago, after I had recently split with my ex-boyfriend, I received a phone call from my really good friend, Kyle.
"Hey Sally!" He spoke too loudly.
"Hey, hey Kyle, what's up?"
"Oh! Haha! Nothing..."
"Oh, um, okay, did you just want to chat?"
"Well, I actually, I was just... um, I was just wondering if, um... if... maybeyou'dwant...to go... out to dinner sometime?"
A clear date request:1) it was the most adorable thing I had ever heard-- he was really nervous
2) it's for a date in the future-- he wants you to accept his offer and make time for you two together
Of course, I wasn't quite ready to date at this point, so I had to decline his offer, but it was nonetheless very flattering and definitely the cutest thing ever.
Scenario 3: a guy asks you to dinner, you're eating it together, and you STILL HAVE NO IDEA IF IT'S A DATE
All right so this can totally happen. If he asked you out really neutrally, and you were friends before but you sense there's something a little more there, you know, you get the picture. So what if...
1) You don't want it to be a date
Casually drop into conversation things like "I'm not really looking to date right now," or, "this guy in my English class asked me to dinner the other day, but I'm just not ready for anything romantic."
If he seems disappointed, he probably thought it was a date, and it's really sad to make guys upset, but it's better than leading them on.
2) You want it to be a date
It's really awkward to outright ask "is this a date?" but I'm a proponent of honesty, so if you feel comfortable asking that, certainly do! If you don't, wait until after dinner is over, then, if you're up to it, ask him out.
Say, "I had a great time! I'd love to go out with you again, like as a date?" And if he says something like "Ha, I thought we were just on one!" Then you get to make a cute little joke about how you were shy and weren't sure. If he says yes to the date, score, and if he says no, well, perhaps you two weren't meant to be.
Now I'm not claiming to be some sort of expert, but I have so many male friends that I'm sometimes confused about what our outings mean, so I thought I'd share some experiences.
Has anyone else ever been unsure about whether or not a dinner is necessarily a date?
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Comments (22)
Open your mouth and ask.
@SodomyClown@xanga - Haha I did give that as an option, and while it's very good advice, some people aren't comfortable doing that sort of thing.
@sara1028 - then they shouldn't be dating. Dating without communication is like having sex without genitals.
While that is an amusing and likely accurate comparison, I don't think it's for us to say who should be dating.
@SodomyClown@xanga - I love your attitude. I'm going to borrow it when I need to.
this is why i ask (when i'm unsure) straight up after they ask me, "is this a date?" and if they say yes, i verify, " like a date date? not a friend date" hahhahaha
I've had coffee with a girl and been unsure about whether it was a date... but not dinner.
I've never really asked a girl to dinner before (my relationships always developed through school), at least, for the purposes of courtship (I've asked my girlfriend haha), but I would imagine I would be the 2nd option if I really liked the girl, and the 3rd if I just was curious and wanted to see if anything would develop, but I wasn't flat on my face enamored with her.
John
i think in general guys just need to be more clear and assertive from the very beginning. the "want to hang out sometime?" or "want to grab some coffee sometime?" is just too vague. and it leads to confusion on both sides. the guy may or may not intend it for it to be a date. and then if he does intend it to be a date, he also isn't sure if the girl accepted it as a friendly outing or a date. haha theres nothing worse than asking a girl to hang out...she says yes...you are extremely happy for about 13 seconds...and then suddenly you're like "wait a minute...does she know that its a date?"
but i think its a general rule of thumb that if he asks to you dinner or drinks at a future time...its a date. whereas if its coffee or lunch...its likely more a friendly outing.
......unless you phrase it like "Miss, would you do me the great pleasure of accompanying me on a romantic outing to Starbucks?"
this was helpful, thank you!
Yes, I have been unsure. But it's never dinner and I like making friends. So I usually don't assume they mean a date when they say, "hey, we should hangout." I don't know..
@SodomyClown@xanga - as funny as that comparison is, I don't think that's really fair.
Dating without communication is bad, sure - but technically, at this point, no one's really sure if it's dating or not. And let's face it, a very large percent of people are either too shy or too scared of embarrassment to ask outright. I'm a huge proponent of honesty and directness, no matter how awkward the outcome is, but I know that's not exactly typical.
But, as this cute little post would show, maybe there are ways around being blunt. :)
OMG, I agree with everything here... and it gets even more confusing if you share the same religion, and the guy asks the girl to meet up for "one-on-ones," to talk about spiritual lives.. Because when you talk to someone about their religious views/lives, it's like asking them to be really vulnerable and basically share their whole life with you, how they came to be the way they came to be... So as the relationship deepens, or even at the beginning, a girl can't help but wonder, 'is this as a friend? As more than a friend? As a sister/brother in Christ?' and then it gets really confusing..
From what I observed, however, it's usually the girls that get hurt... for some reason. it's our hearts that flutter to simple hang outs.
I don't think I've been in those situations. Well, maybe once or twice.
Seems like some generally useful advice that handily takes in to account the many of us that aren't so good at direct communication in some of those ways.
I think some ways it can end up vague is that it's easier to get out a more casual invite. I've certainly seen advice that for a first date that something more casual like lunch is good...which can lead to the less clear situations. It also means less on the line (emotionally) for the one doing the asking...if you're turned down for some more casual thing, you can get the hint the other person isn't interested without the outright rejection.
I brought a girl flowers at work and asked her to at attend a formal dance with me. I went to her house and picked her up, put the corsage on her wrist, and when we got there, she asked me "So, is this a date?"
Some people are unsure even when it might seem abundantly clear. Dating is weird like that.
Date or not, I believe just the mere act of spending time together is something that shouldn't be labeled. If you two like each other you'll talk about it, if not then you'll just go on with your hang out and have fun.
I was just having a conversation with a friend a day or two ago about
that, how I don't consider it a date unless it's expressed either before
or at least during that it's a date.
I've never gone on a date. I always ask straight up like your example with Mr. Witherby when I want it to be a date, but when I just want to hang with a friend I'll ask them out for fun. I think I've had situations that have been misconstrued as dates by outside viewers but never actually had anyone accept a date invitation by me before.
@llunachick2319@xanga - Therein lies the issue of "being blunt". If you are blunt with someone you don't know well, you start giving off a bad impression.
Imagine if you're a guy and you say to a girl that is a newly acquaintance, "I like being around you but I don't want to date you." The feeling would be like "...", "what", and "huuuh??".
Personally, I never make friends with females unless it's in a group context first. Once I know the girl decently enough, then I can feel comfortable asking her to hang out 1v1.
@lil_KyungMin@xanga - There's a huge difference between "hanging out" and a date. Whether or not it is a date or not is determined by if there is romantic intent. If it is made clear that it is a 'date', then both persons understand that it is an attempt to find out if they might have "feelings" towards each other; higher expectations.
If it's a guy friend that I've known for a while, I generally assume that it's not a date, unless I have reason to believe (based on past behavior toward me, dropping hints etc.) that it is. And if I don't want it to be one, I generally avoid the topic because it's awkward. Not the most direct, but I figure if he wants to discuss mushy feelings, he'll bring it up at some point. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my "friendly" dinner.
@wizexel22@xanga - To be fair, a girl could be clear and just ask, too. :)
I just refuse to call anything ever dating. The only "date" I ever technically had consisted of cuddling and watching Avatar: the Last Airbender until we almost passed out. Not even sure if that counts, so... who knows. :D
Ask. end of story. Ask him.
Usually, I don't have that problem because I have a boyfriend and everyone knows about it.. However, there was one incident where a guy thought I really was going to cheat on said boyfriend for him.. That didn't end too well.. He told all his friends he was out on a date with me when I really thought we were just going to watch a movie... It was G-rated! How is that date-worthy?
@SodomyClown@xanga -
I read your post and...I would appreciate to hear your advice since I am not quite sure if what happened between me and a friend was a 'date" or not.
Story: I bumped into guy A (accidentally) and so we casually chatted and in the conversation, I told him I badly need to go to the bank to withdraw money but the problem is, since I am in a foreign land I don't know where to go. I then said I better go to the information office in campus first so that I'll get their advice. Guy A says he will accompany me since he would want to know where to withdraw his money. Guy A and I went to office then found out that there is a nearby bank in a mall. While heading out of the office, guy A asked if I do plan to go to the mall and I said yes then I asked guy A if he has the timetable of the buses going to the mall because, as I told him, I really really need to go today else I'll run out of money. He said the bus just left and the next one is in the afternoon. And I was like, "oh man. Oh well, I'll go this afternoon then". And then he was like, "oh which reminds me, I need to buy a blanket." That point, I kinda felt where the conversation is going but I refused to recognize his comment and simply said, "but you already have one.". And he goes on to say that he wants a new one. And I simply said, "aaahhh..". And then finally, he said, "do you mind if I go with you?". Casually, I said it's okay. Then we had lunch together and before he left he reminded me to meet up next to the bus station. At the mall, we accidentally bumped into my friend and so the three of us went around for sometime until my friend had to go and catch the bus then it was just the two of us. After buying his stuff, I was expecting that he would ask me if I want to head back to the apartment but instead, he asked me if I wanted to tour around the mall since the bus will not arrive in two hours and casually, I said "okay". We then toured around until we bumped into our mutual guy friend and so the three of us spent the remaining time.
Then after, I checked the timetable of buses only to find out that we could have caught an earlier bus than the one we rode. Meaning, the bus could have been at the mall after a few minutes just in time after he was done shopping for his blanket. Also, I find him "inconsistent". He told me he wants to know where the bank is (hence the reason why he accompanied me to the office) so that he knows where to withdraw but at the bank, I asked him how much he wants to withdraw and he was like, "oh I don't need to since there's a nearby atm machine in the apartments".
I want to believe it was just a casual friendly hanging out but we are not that close either to begin with.