Saturday, 20 February 2010
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Ultimatums- Yay or Nay?
I've known this couple for ages- let's call them Josh and Mary. Josh and I were childhood friends, and when he and Mary got together he was ecstatic. Naturally I was really happy for him, and as Mary started hanging out with us, she and I became friends, too. When they got together, Josh was a senior in high school and Mary a junior.
The next year, Josh planned to propose, but his dad and I talked him out of it because they were so young, and didn't seem ready. Also, his choice seemed rather impulsive. He decided to wait until after she had graduated high school, and was going to propose to her that summer. We all approved of that.
Well, that was four years ago now, and Mary is getting impatient. Josh hasn't proposed, and Mary isn't getting any younger. She says she wants a commitment, a sign that he is serious about her. He says that he wants to wait until he can buy a house, because renting is a waste of money (they both live with their parents now). Mary is desperate; she even considered proposing to him! His best friends knew that he would really resent that, and talked her out of it.
Long story short, she gave him the ultimatum that if he hadn't proposed by next December (their six year anniversary), she would leave him.
Do you think this was a good choice on her part? Should she have proposed? Are ultimatums every appropriate? What would you do in this situation, from either side?
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- From: JennyGee@xanga
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Comments (74)
He's obviously not ready for commitment and she should walk away. I did!
hey, i think that's fair.Â
why should her time be wasted?
She should wait until he is ready, geez. Forcing the matter can end up with them married and unhappy. She should respect that he wants to provide for her by buying a house instead of freaking out that he hasn't put a ring on her finger yet. If I was "Josh" I'd think twice about the relationship if she'd be willing to leave him over him simply wanting to be responsible. What else will she attempt to put an ultimatum on further down the road?
She might as well leave. It's obvious he's not ready for that kind of commitment that he or anyone else thought he was.
Ultimatums are a bad idea when it comes to marriage. Because if he wanted to be married to her right now he would be. And what girl really wants to be married to a guy that didn't want to be married to her in the first place? I get that she loves the guy, but she has to either be in or be out. If I were her I would ask him to give me a more specific idea of when he is thinking. Not whenever he can afford a down payment, but a real plan, "I am working this much so I should have this much saved by such and such a time, so spring 2011 is when I will pop the question"--or whatever. But just a concrete plan. If it is a concrete plan that she can live with--congratulations, live happily ever after. If it turns out that it will be whenever he feels ready to be a husband and he isn't sure when that will be, she needs to walk away and find a guy who has the same life itinerary as her. Because if he just is using excuses to avoid the long term commitment and responsibility of marriage, he is going to make a terrible husband.
you can't force someone into asking them to marry you. he's just not ready. i think ultimatums are quite stupid.
At this point and in this situation yeah I think she should tell him that she wants to take it to the next level or she's going to be done wasting her time. They don't have to get married right away but to be officially engaged and heading that way. They can still save for a house and all that. If he honestly wants to be with her he will respect that. If she will be happy being engaged until he's honestly ready to be married (hopefully in the next year or so) then it's a good way to go.
I would have done the same thing.
I can relate. My boyfriend said he would propose before our four year anniversary. It's four years this month, and I don't think there's a proposal waiting in my near future. I've considered proposing to him, too, but like in your friend's situation, I don't think it would be well-received.
I'm trying to be patient, and I don't think I'd resort to an ultimatum. However, he would require me to sign a pre-nup before getting married, and that's basically an ultimatum. ("You promise not to steal my money if we divorce, or we don't get married, period".... which is extremely insulting to me because he should know by now that I'd rather die on the streets than take anything of his that isn't mine, but I'd be willing to sign.) He wants to get married when he's/we're ready to have kids. I don't know if I ever want to have kids. He's also afraid of commitment, and I'm looking for a declaration of commitment to know he really wants to be with me and isn't keeping his options open. Maybe we'll never get married at this point. I've had to start thinking about my priorities and options; is it worth it to stick around? Am I being strung along? How long should I wait?
At least get engaged. He doesn't necessarily have to live with her yet. She should tell him so.
She should propose.
I don't see why the guy has to.
This is all very well, but does she REALLY want him to propose just because of an ultimatum?
http://plentymorefishoutofwater.blogspot.com/ - dating blog
if a girl wants to marry a guy, she can propose just as much as any guy can propose. why the hell is that desperate? he's free to say no.
ultimatums are ok if you actually mean them and are ok with the repercussions of following through.
gee, threatening isn't a good thing, the inpatients of her might doom herself at the end.
That's dumb. Ultimatums are just an excuse- if you deliver one, you don't love the other person enough to want to be with them. A relationship is not about the status or the labels you can give each other, it's about truly enjoying being with the other person.
It would seem that she's over him and looking for a way to pin the breakup on him. ("Well, I told you I'd do ___ if you didn't do ___")
She can do what she wants. And she will.
A proposal doesn't mean they have to get married right away but it is definitely a more permanent solution than just dating someone. I totally understand where Josh is coming from but I can also see it from Mary's. Maybe she doesn't know the reasons behind why he isn't proposing and that's why she is getting impatient. Or perhaps she thinks he is just making up excuses. I think Mary just wants to know that her 6 year investment isn't going to turn into a 15 year investment without something to show for it. After all, buying a house is a heck of a larger monetary transaction than getting an engagement ring. She's probably thinking that the biggest detail in her future is him. Being with him is important and she wants that to be figured out. The future will be built around their lives, not the other way around. This is opposed to Josh who is worried more about financial stability. In his mind, that may be most important. It's not to say that he doesn't love her. Perhaps someone just has to point out to him that there's a reason (Mary) he wants this to work out.
I think that she has every right to put a deadline on something. The biological clock is ticking and she doesn't know where the relationship is going.
No, she shouldn't have proposed because Josh would have resented that. Either way, it may not even solve anything. He could say yes and resent her. Or he could say yes and be happy but make her end up wondering if he was saying "yes" just because he felt he had to and not because he freely chose to be engaged to her. Then again, PMFoutofwater made a great point. With the ultimatum given, how can she be sure he's freely choosing to be with her rather than feel the pressures of the ultimatum itself?
Ultimatums may be appropriate in certain situations but I would still not consider that as an option to take. Honestly, I don't think they are very effective.
If I were Josh, I would propose if I wanted to be with her forever. If not, I shouldn't continue being with her period. There's no use dragging on a relationship if it doesn't come together. If I were Mary, I wouldn't have given him an ultimatum per se. I would definitely be honest with him, though. I would make sure he knew that I want a more serious commitment by now. If he's not up for it, then he won't mind if I'm suddenly not up for committing to him, either. After all, you don't invest unless you're getting interest, dividends, or some other benefit.
I think he's doing the right thing.Whats the point of having an ultimatum like that? Your friends are obviously really young and have a life ahead of them.I bet this guy wants to stick with the girl for a really long time and has marriage in his head since he's been with her for such a long time.He's obviously really commited.He probably wants them to have a really stable future perhaps a proper future when he moves out of his parents house.I think Ultimatums suck but if this girl really wants to keep one just get engaged.
@methodElevated@xanga - My S.O. and I are at odds with the pre-nup issue as well. Currently, I'm at a state where I couldn't even DREAM about taking anything of his regardless of who wronged the other. However, I'm thinking that if there is a future that involved a divorce, I think there may be a point where I will try to.
So, does he know when he'll be ready to have kids? That's a little ambiguous.
I think how long people wait has to be determinant of the couple and what stage of life they are in. There's definitely no deadline but you might want to bring it up to him.
I think it's fine considering it's going to be six years. She's young, and she spent 6 years with someone and she just wants to know it won't go to waste, I guess. I mean, he doesn't have to go out and buy an expansive ring, but he could at least bring up the idea of marriage, no?
Plus, does he really plan to live with the parental units until he's financially stable enough to buy a house? Because that might take a looooong while.
Ultimatums are the worst idea ever. They only work if you are really willing to do what you say you will. If something matters that much to you. But this "marry me now or never" BS just needs to quit. Boys: if a girl does this to you, get rid of her =P
either they're right for each other and she should wait him out, or it's time for her to move on. if she's in deep need of permanent commitment, she may have to come to terms with the idea that she's not going to find it where she is right now.
@T0m03@xanga - A friend of ours said that the pre-nup isn't for me; it's "to protect him (my boyfriend) from my lawyers". -shrug- I can kind of see that, and I understand wanting to protect his assets in case, I don't know, I spontaneously develop dissociative identity disorder and one of my alters is a money-grubbing bitch? lol But truthfully, I don't see myself changing my opinion on the matter of money. I don't want it. If I could live off the land in the middle of the wilderness far away from this crazy world full of artificiality and materialism, I would.
He wants to have kids before 30 or 35, I think, because he's very worried about the chance of birth defects increasing after the man is 30. He'll be 29 in June.
I love him to death, and we compliment each other ridiculously well. That's why I've stuck around, and why I intend to do so for quite a long time, marriage or not. We've talked about it in great length many, many times. He admits that he's selfish and wants too many nice things for himself to be able to afford a kid right now. That's fine. We live comfortably, and we could easily afford a kid, in my opinion, but he sees it differently. He has very ambitious career plans, and I suspect if they come out as he hopes, maybe then marriage will actually be on the table. His writing projects are his babies right now, and I perfectly understand that he wants to put those first.
Tell the selfish bitch to calm the fuck down or get the fuck out.
What a lot of people on here have said is VERY true--They can get engaged now, and then wait for the financial stability to get married. I think that's the best solution to make both parties happy, because it means Josh has time to get his finances together, and Mary has a more commited stance from Josh.
Eh, she probably shouldn't have. For whatever reason, he isn't ready to make that sort of commitment. Why pressure a guy who isn't exactly ready anyway? "Marry me even though you're not certain?" Doesn't make sense. More like: marry me because you can't imagine being without me.
Perhaps proposing would have been the more appropriate thing to do. It would have made her feelings clear and still given him some tiny amount of breathing room.
Personally in my book, ultimatums are rarely appropriate if only for the fact that if you're forcing someone to do something they're not really interested in doing it.
I wouldn't have stressed out about no proposal. She's young and a ring isn't required to show love.