Well, my friend died. His funeral is being held on Friday. I am almost glad that he's gone though. He hasn't been the same since his wife died 2 years ago. Whenever I went to visit him, she was all he could talk about, and in the past few months, he was so drugged up that he basically wasn't there anymore.
I guess maybe that's why I don't feel as sad as I should yet. Letting go of him has been a two year process.
I hope that when I get married, I'll be like that.
It would be nice to be with someone I loved 60 years later. To tell you the truth, I've never really held that much faith in marriage as an institution. I guess I just haven't personally experienced that many successful and happy marriages. I don't think that my parents are particularly happy people, but there is one thing that I admire about their marriage. No matter what they say to each other, no matter what they do, they still function as a unit in search of a better life for their family. There is no "I" to them, really. Their needs are superseded by the needs of the whole.
I am not saying that this is a perfect system. I think that your personal needs should be factored into the equation as well. Just keeping everything running smoothly in a relationship isn't enough; you've got to watch out for yourself as well. However, I think that this is more of a Western mentality. I read an article once detailing how Western civilizations (like America and many European countries) were more individualistic because of their social and political structure while Eastern civilizations were more collectivistic due to the same reasons. This concept can be applied to marriage as well.
If I were to compare the relationships of my American friends (I'm including myself in this mix as well since I'm basically a twinkie), a good many of them have ended because of the selfishness of one more of the parties involved. American people seem to think that it's a bad thing when they change for other people. They think that they are sacrificing their own individuality and personality to make the other person happier. If the other person has this same mentality, then yes, they probably are sacrificing themselves for the wrong reasons, but if you look at it from a more collectivist perspective, it's different. If you are changing yourself for the good of the relationship and if the other person is changing for the good of the relationship, then it's not "sacrificing individualism," it's compromise.
I kind of think of it as a three-legged race. If two people are tied together that walk at different speeds or with different stride lengths, then they have to change if they're going to get anywhere together. If both parties view this as a negative thing (why do I have to change myself? I was walking just fine before), then they're going to be unhappy, but if they view as a way for both of them to rely on each other to get somewhere the both want to be, then change is good.
In summary, don't be selfish! When you tie yourself to another person, you can't really think of yourself as much anymore. You are accountable for someone else.
So which do you think is more important in a relationship? Individual happiness or collective happiness?
Comments (14)
I think when you're truly collectively happy, you're also individually happy.
I think before a person gets involved in a relationship, they should be in a stable and "happy place" themselves. Then, once another person is in the equation, they should work together to be successful in their relationship. Your parents sound a lot like mine which is a relief.
This was a good post... and when I get in a relationship, I'll let you know what I think. I want to say both... because I think when you seek that collective happiness, you can find individual happiness within that.
Nice thoughts, and I'm glad that your friend is back with his sweetheart. I think the important thing about a relationship is mostly caring more about the happiness of the other person than that of yourself. In that way, you both get to be happy; it's a pretty good plan, when it works.
Good thoughts, I'm married so I have to say both.r
I love that analogy. It's so completely perfect.
I broke up with my ex-boyfriend due to the fact that I couldn't settle for collective happiness. I felt like everything was on his terms and I didn't get a say in any of it. Sometimes I wonder if I really loved him enough because if I had done would I have sacrificed more? However, he wasn't willing to sacrifice anything, and we are both stubborn mules, so we ended up sacrificing our relationship. And the consequences of that were deeper than expected.
If a couple can't settle any differences they may have and work together.... nothing gets done, and the relationship ends. My ex once told me you shouldn't have to sacrifice or change for a relationship, but I think that's a bunch of BS. You can't change anyone else, but you can change yourself. So long as you can do that, and you're willing to for the person you love... it works. I'm glad your friend and his wife are together again. I hope that someday, I'll end up like that too... fall in love, and stay in love with that person for the rest of my life. As unlikely as that sounds..... seeing the exceptions are proof.
I think your three legged race thing is interesting but it doesn't encompass the positives. I was thinking just now maybe it's more like carrying the most comfortable beautiful couch up into your apartment: it's a lot of work but its funny, you can't do it alone, and you accomplish much more than you could alone. Plus you get some fantastic rewards that are comfortable!
I just want some panera..
Most Westerners, including the Americans, do not realize what you have realized. I find it surprising that in light of that realization, you'd still identify yourself as a twinkie, that is, yellow on the outside, white on the inside. That realization is that you've noticed the differences in cultural mindsets between the West and the Far East and understand that the differences have their pros and cons. Then you took it a step further and analyzed what those pros and cons mean in a relationship relative to the West and the East. Most Westerners fail to and simply cannot think beyond their own little, self-gratifying worlds. I give you props for knowing this.
In any case, I think that collective happiness supersedes individual happiness. Our Asian parents' relationships are simply different from modern day relationships. For them, it's not about individual happiness but the happiness of the collective. You already know that but what you may not have known is that our parents got into relationships because it was, at the time, the only way to survive. Individual happiness doesn't even come into the equation.
While I am no expert in Asian culture, males have always had all the financial power. This is especially true in western culture if you don't already know that. Getting into a relationship with a male was the practical thing to do at the time. It means you will get fed, have shelter, and maybe even a small livelihood of sorts. Sounds like crap compared to western relationships of modern day times but that was life back then. Though I am not necessarily suggesting that you are saying this but for people who say that the Eastern mentality with regards to relationships is backwards compared to the Western mentality, they are comparing apples and oranges. It's just a different mindset and again, Westerners fail to realize this and would prefer to belittle what they do not know or understand.
Though it is true that not all Asian parents had to endure what my parents have had to endure, most did at the time. In modern day times and in America, since I was born and bred here, when I see kids these days complain about happiness in a relationship, I find it amusing that many of the reasons, if not all, point back to their unwillingness to compromise in a relationship. To these kids, my happiness is more important than your happiness. Compared to our parents, these kids have it so much better off. They actually have the option of choosing who to be in a relationship with! Wow!
So in light of my parent's histories, I think collective happiness is more important than individual happiness but--and here is my western side speaking--that isn't to say that your own happiness isn't important. It is up to a point. And if you can't strike that balance between your own happiness and the collective happiness, maybe you shouldn't be getting into a relationship with this person to begin with.
for certain that collective happiness is imperative since i am asian from HongKong