Sunday, 08 November 2009
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Why Do Men Always Need Proof?
There are some things that have been frustrating me about guys, or the guys I have experienced anyway.
Why is it so hard to get guys to have an open mind? When I try to tell a guy something, whether its a humanitarian topic like the fact that not everyone has the opportunity to to go to school because they may have things preventing them like poverty, no guidance, difficult life, or even just a fact that I learned from school (I am a Education / Psych. major), basically any variety of a topic, they need evidence. Or else they challenge everything you say. They can't just have an open mind and think "that's possible".
I mean don't get me wrong, I want to hear their opinion and I want them to be able to voice their opinion; but it seems like instead of having a conversation or just even a good debate, I'm talking to the Devil's advocate instead. It seems they always have something to say against it, (which a challenge can be good, but not every single time we're talking). Sometimes I just want to be able to express myself, or share my knowledge, or what not. And I realize later on they just need to have proof, or evidence to really believe me. Maybe its just me, but I feel like when I talk to girls they are a lot more open minded and understanding.
Another thing that frustrates me that I realize guys tend to do. Recently its happened with two of the guys I know. It's like, if they aren't benefited in return, they don't do the same in return. What I mean is that say I stopped telling a guy who I was texting every time, before he would always tell me who he was texting, and all of a sudden he stopped. And I ask him why, and he answer that it's because I don't tell him who I text anymore. Well first of all, I didn't realize I was doing that. and Second of all, It frustrates me that THAT was the reason he stopped. It's like saying, "oh because my gf cheated on me I'm going to cheat on her too". or "that person didn't give me a ride when I needed it last time, so I'm not going to give them a ride this time either".
It's like, can you not just think on your own accord? Can you not just do something because you want to or don't want to? Can you not doing something without needing to have something in return? I feel like the guys base their actions off of what I do, which can be really frustrating sometimes because it's not like they communicate or tell me why they did what they did. They just do it because I stopped, or they only do it because I do it. It's almost like the guys who are asking to be whipped, if you know what I mean. Except the fact is, I DON'T want them to be whipped. They only do things because of you, not because they want to or because of another external factor. They base their decisions off of you, etc.
Maybe it's just the guys I experience and it's a general thing people do.. or maybe guys really are like that. I would really like to know. Has anyone else had this happen to you before??
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Comments (41)
It seems like you're hanging out with annoying guys.. there are guys out there that aren't so annoying. There are also girls out there that could be described in the exact same way you described these guys.
to me this doesn't sound strange at all. i want proof for things. if you have something to say, i don't think it's unreasonable to ask that you to back yourself up.
the this-for-that mentality is pretty childish, though.
@crazedhobbit@xanga - I agree.
Sounds kind of like you are hanging out with guys that are stuck in their highschool mindset. Find guys that are more mature and I promise that you'll be a lot less frustrated. Of course, guys will be guys, lol...so they will always have their ways and they will always find little way to annoy you. But overall it sounds like the guys you are talking about just have mature issues.
The constant devil's advocate gets annoying after a while, guy or girl. After a while I just shrug, let them think they "won" and move on.
That's EXACTLY what my husband does. And even when I give him hard facts he tries to raise doubts and ride the fence. It's sooooooooo frustrating.
i think most people just like reliable proof.
This reminds me of the the book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus book. In the book, they generalise that:
1.) [Logical] men are supposedly focused on finding a solution to a problem.
2.) [Emotional] women merely want their problems acknowledged.
All-in-all it REALLY does sound like a communication problem due to gender differences. I suppose if you want him to listen and comfort, then you need to make that clear. Either that or you might be making too many random "loose statements" that annoy him.
At least try to see things from a guy's point-of-view. Guys are not mind readers, ya know!
They don't trust you.
Some guys are just a bit dumb.
lol i think we pick our topics. you talk to me about crop circles or what you think about multiple worlds theory, i'm all up for having an open mind. when you talk about the human psyche, i need some hard evidence, haha.
and in regards to the texting thing and telling you about it. i do the same. i usually start a relationship and tell the SO that i'm texting so-and-so just to make sure she feels comfortable. she tells me, it's kind of an unspoken deal. but once she stops telling me, i figure she's comfortable enough that i don' t have to tell her either. it's more of a chore if anything. we're not following you (girls). once you stop, we're relieved cause we figure that's when we can stop too ;)
i am going to have to agree with misspixieglitter. she said exactly what i wnated to say.
although, i really never expected myself to think, "i agree with misspixieglitter." no offense.
@lot223@xanga - Ditto with the texting thing as you put it. Lol. Once the guy or girl stop, it's kind of like an unspoken rule that they are comfortable enough to know that you do have a life outside of them and that they don't need to follow you up on their lives and who you do or do not text. Mmm.
I have not run into any men that needs proof of whatever it is about the topic that we are talking about. Most of the men that I meet are open minded and willing to discuss/debate about whatever issues that I or we bring to the table.
Maybe it's just the men that you run into?
I think you probably just have bad luck if every guy you talk to wants to argue any point you bring up.
That said, in order for a guy to know something, he needs proof that things are that way. Something tangible is always nice, and in a relationship, giving a guy something tangible so he can believe things are the way they are is honestly one of the sweetest things a woman can do.
That doesn't mean they're close-minded, although I guess some might be.
The whole texting thing honestly sounds a bit hypocritical. If it shouldn't matter to him who you're texting...why should it matter to you when he stops supplying that information to you? It's kind of a stupid argument, but the principle behind it would kind of irritate me too. "Why don't you have to do something that you expect me to do?". Even if you didn't realize that you were giving him that information in the first place, you were defnitely aware that he was giving you that information, and then you decided to ask about it when he stopped. If it really didn't matter, why would you have even noticed or asked?
I hear guys say this a lot, "I cheated because she did it first." Well, now he's a cheater because I believe that once you're a cheater you are always a cheater. The person should have exhibited some self control and been the better person about it. In my opinion, faithfulness obviously isn't a conviction of theirs (or they wouldn't have done it in the first place); therefore, they would do it again.
@MissPixieGlitter@xanga - I'm the same.
I think the needing proof thing there isn't anything wrong with that. But the I'm only doing it because you do it and I'll only do it if I get something in return thing is stupid.
For the humanitarian topics, there is no good reason why they shouldn't want proof--I am female (and a science major) and it's pretty hardwired into my head to look for and evaluate sources of information. Sure, there are some things that you simply can't offer proof via scientific method for, but for the example you gave with school there is plenty of sociological data to make arguments one way or the other. I think that pushing each other to really think about and evaluate your opinions makes for better and more stimulating conversation, especially in the long run.
My boyfriend always needs proof when I tell him something. It kind of bothers me, but that's just how he is. He always has to be right.
@constantfluxintoto@xanga - lol, none taken. but aww, why is that?
most of the guys that I've met are male chauvinist pigs or assholes. bad luck on my part Lol that's why most of my friends are girls, not guys.
I am only responding to the first half of your entry.
I can relate as I studied sociology in university.
It is really annoying because you don't usually remember the exact numbers and if they don't have any background in liberal arts, they might hold the common ideologies we dispel in class.
This might be a warning sign though. First it's humanitarian topics, next he might not believe you when you tell him something you feel strongly about. Don't date someone who always has to be right. Never ever date someone who makes you feel like you are always wrong or unreliable. I don't know enough about you or your boyfriend / guy friends, but this can be an issue of power/control and making you feel inferior.
Solution: try to find male feminists. ok, not easy. try to find guys who have some liberal arts background.
I don't know what to say about the texting debacle, but it's not masculine to ask for proof or evidence - it's intelligent and absolutely key to being a well informed thinking person. If you have a good reason to hold the opinion that you do you shouldn't have a problem providing or pointing to supporting evidence.
FWIW: I don't keep tons of little numbers and studies memorized in my head, but because I understand what I am talking about I have no problem pulling up studies using Google Scholar that support my position or recommending reading from textbooks, etc.
You should also notice that asking for evidence is a sign of open mindedness - it indicates that if you can provide proof or evidence, the person you are speaking with will change their mind. This is pretty different from always having to be right...
@astudyinemerald@xanga - Thank god I'm not the only woman pointing out that there's absolutely nothing masculine or close minded about asking for evidence. <3
Interestingly, I'm also a career scientist - although my first degree is in the humanities and I like to roll with the artists in town. ;)
Men are beings based on reason, unlike women. With women you can say anything, and she'll believe you (guys know this, and some take advantage of it more than others)
That's just how we are.
Every man knows that nothing is free, and that everything is for a reason, so therefor the thinking that you do something simply on a whim to a man is totally unknown, uncalled for, or just plain stupid.
Also, we base our actions off of you for a reason. If we did what we wanted, we know you wouldnt like it, and we wouldnt get laid, or marriages would ruin. I think that us basing our actions from yours is considerate, is it not? So in my opinion, you shouldn't be complaining about it, because that is one of the many complaints women have about men.
I'll add in something else: the game is all about basing things off of your actions, and women make it harder than it reallly needs to be. I don't speak for all men when I say that, but at least most of them.
@xjadersx@xanga - you should just give it to him, I'm pretty sure if he's a real man, he'll admit if he's wrong.
@xXDC_luyouXx - Not going to win many lady friends quoting sexist and outdated literature, IMO. ;)
@Gerald_Washington@xanga - Men are beings based on reason, unlike women.
Want to provide some empirical evidence for that statement, Sir?