Wednesday, 01 April 2009
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Chivalrous Guys: I Am Not An Invalid
I just realized that I hate chivalry. I have this guy friend, and every time we go out to eat, he pays for it. I always say that I'll pay for it but somehow he's quicker in handing the money to the cashier. I don't know how he gets there so fast. Once, I thought he went to the restroom but he went to pay the cashier instead and I found out when I tried to pay for our dinner.
Then when he thinks I get cold (I am never cold. I love the cold), he offers his jacket. He even opens the door for me. OMG, what am I - an invalid? I hate when guys do things like this. Once in a while is okay, but not always, because it gets annoying to me.
I don't like the idea that I'm seen as this weak individual that can't do these things myself. I told my friend about this and he still does it. Do you think I would feel differently if the person doing these chivalrous acts is cute? Haha, I don't think so.
At least with my crush, he offers to pay, but when I insist on paying, he lets me. I find that to be a more admirable quality.
How do you feel about chivalry?
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Comments (114)
You are not an invalid, he is just being a gentlemen, nothing more. A gentlemen doesn't give her the chance to pay, he offers you his jacket and opens the door, stand when you get up from the table. It is a sign of respect. He is not trying to make you not valid he is trying to show you he respects you.
As an independent woman i can see how this could seem insulting at first.. but seriously? a lot of guys just enjoy doing this for women.. enjoy it now. because in a few years.. when you're bitching about how 'chivlary is dead' ill just have to tell you to shut the hell up cause you thought it was annoying and didnt appreciate what a gentleman this guy is.. i always offer to pay for my own dinner.. and i never let men give me big gifts.. because i dont believe in that..
but holding open doors and offering jackets?? get over yourself..
Warning: This is going to sound a bit harsh.
Honestly? I think women like you need a lesson in what chivalry actually means.
Chivalry is not (and never has been) about believing that a woman is the weaker sex. In the olden days it was the only way for a man to show he was romantically interested in a woman (hooking up really wasn't an option in dragon slaying, Chasity belt days) It has now evolved into a way for a man to show how much he cherishes the woman he's with. It's not about him actually believing that you are weaker.
It's about him wanting to show how much he cares for you with out coming off like Barney Stimson (side note, How I Met Your Mother is the best show you're not watching. Go Hulu it)
It's about agape: the greek word for all encompassing, deep, come what may love. And it's have to be romantic.
So let him pay for dinner, and tell him that you really love the cold (if he's truly chilvarous, he'll take the hint and stop offering)
And heck, put a personal ad in the paper for him while your at it. There are tons of women out there who love chivilary and are constantly wondering where all the good guys are.
I, personally, love chivalry.
But then again, it's really, really expected where I'm at (Texas) for the guys to do things like that--not because we're invalids, but because it's considered common courtesy (ie, that's how their momma raised them! lol).
It was a shock for me to visit the north (upstate New York) and have people not open doors or pull out chairs for me, and honestly I didn't appreciate it.
Anyway, I liked your post! I love reading different reactions to things...makes me think more about my own actions. :)
@fugita@xanga - amen to that.. thank you so much.. ive learned very quickly to appreciate when men act like this.. and i LOVE LOVE LOVE that you mentioned standing up when a women gets up from the table.. no one understands or does that any more...
@NrCaSurferChic@xanga - I do.
@fugita@xanga - @frenchiefrenchfry@xanga - AGREED!!
WHAAAT?! I LOVE when guys do this. It shows that thier momma actually taught them something, and THEY LISTENED. hahaa.
On a more serious note, yeah, it shows that he respects you. You should be glad he's doing it for you. He's not trying to belittle you or anything. We should appriciate these types of guys more-- because they are becoming extinct! :(
don't complain about somebody showing courtesy for once. i hold doors for everyone.
although the paying thing gets annoying.
I think it's nice, but it can go a bit overboard and get annoying.
@freeforming@xanga - You are so right. I have lived all over the world and I have lived in or been to all 48 of the continues US states and I have noticed southern gentlemen do still exist and you are correct, it is how our mother raised us. Personally, I live in Texas now but was raised military were sir and ma'am are required, were opening a door for a lady was required and were showing respect was done not just for a lady but for anyone in a position of respect and authority.
To this day I still open the door, pull out her chair, pay *not offer but pay*, give her my coat, and stand when she gets up from the table. There are other things a gentlemen does too, always pay attention to her fully and notice the little things she took the time to do *like when her nails are a new color or she has had her hair cut*. Trust me guys do this and you will earn the respect of a lady faster!
No if she is not a lady she will take offense to your actions but in those cases you are better off with lady anyway.
@fugita@xanga - Men definitely, 100%, earn my respect when they do these things. I've never equated military with chivalry, but now that you mention it...for sure! My entire family is either military or former military, and we were all taught "manners"--ie, chivalry or how to accept it.
Eh, I wouldn't waste time/energy getting too worked up about it, since it seems his intentions are good. I mean, wouldn't you offer a friend your jacket if they were cold? And if you got to the door before someone, you'd hold it open for them. It has nothing to do with thinking you're weak.
Now, if he were doing all this because he expected something, I would not be impressed either. It would demonstrate a rather stunning lack of knowledge regarding your preferences/beliefs, as well as cheapening the gesture. Is this the case?
I can see how it might become uncomfortable if you're just friends and he insists on paying all the time, since I wouldn't be comfortable with that either. You'll just have to become better than him at intercepting the bill (or sneaking the money back to him somehow).
Have you talked to him about it? You could just tell him that you appreciate his intentions, but you'd like to pay for your own dinner since you feel uncomfortable taking advantage of him. Especially true if you guys eat out a lot, since that can become quite costly. As for the other things, you could always open your own doors and refuse the jacket, no big deal.
Wow, he is one nice guy.
@frenchiefrenchfry@xanga - Well she said she didn't like it so he should stop doing it so much. I know it's very kind of him to be so kind to her but different girls are..different. If she doesn't like him doing things for her all the time, he should have enough respect to stop. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but seeing as SHE feels like he's treating her like she's weak, and she TOLD him not to, and he still continues, I think she makes a valid point here.
I have nothing against chivalry or anything (as long as it's not to the degree of Edward Cullen lol) but in her case and opinion, I would agree with her that he should respect her wishes and back off a little.
I have a friend like him, and another friend like you who gets annoyed about it. I'm more annoyed that they argue about who gets to hold the door open =/
It's a door. Whatever.
@fugita@xanga - Ok say I was your girlfriend, I personally wouldn't like that very much. I would really appreciate your compassion and care, but after the first few days I think I would feel suffocated. Some girls like it and some don't - I think I'm one of the girls that wouldn't like that too much after some time. I'm not asking to be treated like dirt, but not some precious little thing either. Just normally treated would be fine with me.
But my point is just because a woman doesn't want all those things doesn't make her a non-lady. And if a guy doesn't like doing those things for a woman over and over, it doesn't mean he is not a kind gentleman.
@katiwitz@xanga - Different people are different. You may like it which is fine, but I really don't think you should tell her to like it as well. She has her own mind. I kind of agree with you that it would be nice to have a guy like that but I would also agree with the author in that if the guy goes against your wishes and continues to overdo it then it can get annoying and disrespectful since he is deliberately ignoring your request. I don't know if you know this but that could actually be a sign of an abusive boyfriend. I don't want to blow this out of proportion but I'm just trying to illustrate my point that different opinions and people exist out there.
@jupiter312@xanga - Haha!! I have some friends like that too. Though, recently they are less into arguing over who holds the door, and more into being mad at me for mocking their stupid arguments.
Honestly, I think you need to lighten up on this guy. I'm pretty sure he isn't meaning to make you seem weak or anything. I'm pretty sure he is trying show you respect and be gentleman like. If it really bothers you that much you should just let him know. I get that you might have told him before, but maybe he doesn't understand that you feel so strongly against him doing this.
I feel like this is the reason a lot more guys don't act chivalrous is because they get girls thinking that they believe that we're a weaker sex, which is sad because it's not true.
@greatsneha@xanga - My point is I don't just do this for my girlfriend. I do this for any woman I am with be she a co-worker, boss, friend, relative! It is a sign of respect not because I want to win your heart. I do for strangers on the street as well the woman I love. I will open a door, offer a woman my umbrella in the rain, offer to help her with her groceries, and I have even given my jacket to a nice old lady who was sitting waiting for the bus with me one day because she was cold. Now if my girlfriend asked to split the bill, I would let her think we were splitting the bill but know full well before the night was out the money she gave me would be used to buy her a flowers, or an ice cream or something nice. Why because I'd rather spend the money on her then me. But then again it is who I am. My friends all know this of me. My best friend is so much like me when we take a group out for dinner and fun I pay the bill and he matches it for the tip *our wait staff knows him and I well and we get the best service in town*. Party of 10 *five couples* bill was about $180.00 added tip about $180.00. The other guys gave us a few bucks for the bills but we told the ladies not to worry, it was all taken care of already. If my girlfriend doesn't want my jacket she doesn't have to take it but I'd offer her me to cuddle up with to warm her up. My girl doesn't like being touched by anyone *long personal story* but when her feet hurt I still offer to rub them knowing she might say no, but then again she might say yes too, so I offer. A lady can say no and a gentlemen who respects her will honor her wishes. But for a women to get upset over a guy being respectful, seems to me she thinks he is trying to belittle her and not seeing he is just being respectful. Would you rather a guy make you pay and have you open the door and treat you like crap cause those guys are plentiful as you can see from several of the comments guys like me who will treat a lady with respect are rare now a days. Most guys don't bother because too many women complain because they feel we want to belittle them. I have had one lady get mad at me on a first date for being who I am and showing respect. We didn't have a second date, even though she called me 3 times afterward to ask if I wanted to go out.
@fugita@xanga - I definitely understand what you are saying. I think it's a very compassionate viewpoint you have and believe me when I say it is very refreshing to me. My point was most specifically addressed to your previous post which mentioned that "if she is not a lady she will take offense to your actions" which I didn't think was fair. You just can't help that there will be some women who don't like to even be offered such things over and over again (maybe the first few dates or weeks of dating) - my friend is exactly like that. She wants to be treated kind of like "one of the guys" in her relationships. Kind of like a friendship-relationship. Obviously if it matters to someone that much about just being offered something, she will choose guys that don't do it or don't do it as much. But everyone is going to have their little opinions on this and even though I see and rather like your viewpoint, I can also see validity and truth in the author's viewpoint.
I'll take him if you don't want him
j/k. kinda. lol
I wish I knew more gentlemen.
@storiesandsinker@xanga - That always seems to happen, doesn't it. Lol.
@greatsneha@xanga - understood and honestly I probably would not date your friend more then once. and I was not trying to imply no woman should feel that way just trying to make the point that I would rather not be with that lady if she is going to be offended by me always being respectful and kind to her. I would not ask anyone to change to please me and I would not change to please anyone else. With that said I did become a Vegan because I knew my girl wants to have a Vegan house hold when we move in together. I already mostly eat salads, fish, and very little meat. So it was not a big deal for me because I knew the benefits and am enjoying the weight loss. But who I am and who she is are set on upbringing, culture, environment and so on. I agree she has a right to feel how she does about whatever and I have a right to be who I am always and if those two don't mesh well then so be it. I would never try to force someone else to see things my way or believe as I do. I am a live and let live, love and let love kind of person.