Monday, 23 March 2009
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He Said It Was Okay to Date His Friend, Then Panicked
About a year ago, I met "Kenny" - I picked him up at a play audition, asked him out to lunch and we became friends with heavy flirtation. Now, I think Kenny is a wonderful person: sensitive, considerate, poetic and lovely to talk to. The reason I never dated him was because he was too nice. He also seemed to depend on having a girl in his life all the time and I wanted someone independent. I had no doubts he really liked me, but I wanted a strong person for a partner. We also had different ambitions. I'm a fish out of water and he wants a quiet life, so it never went anywhere. We made out once 10 months ago. That was it. We talked about it. Nothing was going to happen. The end.About two months ago, I meet one of his best friends and housemates, "Ryan". Although a bit of a strong, silent type, Ryan is charming, confident and independent. He's not looking for a relationship, but it was pretty much such a natural thing to start seeing each other, even if for a set time until he graduates. He treats me better than any guy I've ever been with, appreciates my art, likes my mind and is so comfortable to be with.
We asked Kenny if it was okay if we started seeing each other. Kenny said we should go for it, as long as he didn't have to see it or hear about it.
Ryan and I broke it off a few days ago because we saw that Kenny really wasn't okay with it at all. Kenny has been avoiding me since I started seeing Ryan, which really bothered me because we're pretty good friends. I thought he would come around because it's been so long. He's liked other girls since that time and even had a girlfriend (only for two weeks, though, because she was too aggressive). I felt that I had no obligation to him at all.
I talked to Kenny and explained to him that Ryan and I were no longer seeing each other, but Kenny just got upset and said he didn't want to be that guy and hated that everyone treated him like he was "made of porcelain". He seems to be having issues with women in general. He said he was lonely, felt that knowing Ryan and I were together was rubbed it into his face, and that he wasn't good at being alone. He said he didn't want to talk about it anymore because he doesn't want to think and be upset about it.
I'm not really sure what to do. I offered to introduce him to this great girl. I asked my best friend and a couple of close friends about it. They said that although he never said Ryan and I couldn't see each other, Kenny clearly was giving all the vibes and nonverbal DONT DO IT even though he really wasn't in a place to be because nothing ever happened between us.
I could never think ill of Kenny. But are they right? Does Kenny really want to be "that guy" without being blamed for it? And I really like Ryan; was it wrong for me to even start seeing him?
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Comments (25)
Obviously Kenny really likes you. You shouldn't let him stop your own happiness, but at the same time, you are sort of shoving it in his face by dating his close friend. He's liked you for a long time, you're basically saying to him, "you're not good enough for me, but your friend is".
ummmm i think u should just see who u wanna see and well kenny will come to be fine....he needs some time
Kenny likes you and he fucked it up by setting you up with another guy. However, Kenny's problem is the ire of all nice guys: we like you like that, but as we're too nice, you seem to shrug us off and date some other guy. He doesn't want to be treated like he's made of porcelain; but he sure does act like it.
Normally, I'd berate you for passing him up for another guy; but you like the strong independent guys and that's understandable. So, no, it's not wrong for you to have been seeing Ryan, in fact, Kenny should not have come between you two. He didn't want to see it or hear about it because he wanted to be your partner in life, and him hearing that his dream girl is off with another guy eats him alive.
Kenny really likes you and wants to be with you in a serious relationship, but Kenny has absolutely no right to make you be with him just because he feels more deserving or is lonely.
Wow this is Dr. Phil tough. I suppose it comes down to a few options.
A. You keep the friend "Kenny" and lose out on what could be something really good, "Ryan".
B. You keep what could be something really good, "Ryan" and lose a friend "Kenny"
C. You see "Ryan" on the side and agree never to meet anywhere "Kenny" could be, in order to avoid the conflict (Best of both worlds if I may)
D. You sit down with "Kenny" AND "Ryan" at the same time and get things sorted...
But personally, allowing "Kenny" to be a wet blanket in your life hardly seems fair.
Here is my example, I have a really good friend, a couple of my other friends and I don't particularly like his girlfriend sometimes... She's a control freak, hardcore. She's VERY fun and we like her as a friend, but sometimes she annoys the shit out of us and pulls strings to have our friend forfeit his balls and ditches his guy-friends. However, we cope, we sometimes bitch and complain to each other, but we leave them alone, because they seem happy together and that is worth more than possibly ruining not only their relationship but our friendships.
Moral of my story, do what makes YOU happy and worry about other's feelings as it goes. Because if you are unhappy but your friends are, how is that healthy in the long run? There will always be resentment somewhere.
@roxics@xanga - Ditto!
If Kenny wasn't comfortable with the idea of you dating Ryan, he should of been upfront about it. But being the nice guy that is he, he didn't want to be that "one" who comes in between your happiness, verbally, anyways. And again, dating his friend was just rubbing it in his face that he was not good enough for you. But then again, he shouldn't let his "dependence" on women stop you from your own happiness too.
Basically, in that situation you have to choose between the two. Because by dating Ryan your hurting Kenny. Doesnt matter whether or not Kenny has the right to stop you to, hes still going to be hurt. I think he just doesnt want to be the one to stop you, he wants to know that it was your decision alone, that made you not want to date Ryan. He wants to know that it was in your heart to be closer to Kenny by not being with Ryan. But on top of all that, as mean as this sounds, I think you need to get rid of Kenny, or date someone that isnt Ryan, just to make it clear to Kenny that he needs to go get his own life. I dont think its healthy for him, knowing he really likes you, to stick around like that, I think since you gave him a bit of hope by making out with him, that hes going to stick around in case you change your mind. I doubt you plan on coming around and dating Kenny.
I think if you allowed Kenny to come between your relationship with Ryan then you would come to resent him for it eventually. My advice is, be mindful of Kenny's feelings, but also be aware that you have to look out for you (because no one else will) so do what makes you happy. Just don't rub it in his face and he should get over it.
of course they'll always panick.
it's awkward.
Wow, pretty much just went through this exact situation.
Except it resulted in actually losing said friend.But I'm still with my boyfriend, and happy with it.
So just depends on what's more important to you I guess...
It wasn't "wrong" for you to start seeing Ryan, but you had to have realized it was probably going to start some problems with them being friends/housemates and all. So you should have seen it coming.
I think you should have the choice of dating whomever you want, but not in this case. Ryan, as you have mentioned, is one of Kenny's best friends and housemate. If you continue to see Ryan, you'll not only hurt Kenny, but will cause tension inside an environment where they both call home and possibly jeopardize their friendship. But I think you know all of this already that's why you decided to stop seeing Ryan.
There are other men out there and they are just as independent and strong as Ryan. It simply isn't worth it. You're not in love with Ryan so just let it go. Be the bigger person and let Kenny have his way. He's still got a lot of growing up to do and you don't want to be in a situation where you'll come out as the bad guy.
Punch Kenny in his balls to remind him that he's a man.
He doesn't want to be treated like porcelain, but he sure as hell is porcelain. Why do you have to base who you date off of a guy that you're not going to date?
This may sound like I'm attacking you but I'm not so bear with me:
I think you took the easy way out by breaking up with Ryan with the excuse of Kenny's discomfort. Didn't you think about that when you first felt you had to ask his permission in the first place? And knowing Kenny, didn't you know he was going to be weird about it longer than most people would since you two have attempted something more? And so instead of working it out with Kenny; having a talk about how important it is that he's still part of your life and treat him like a man rather than "made out of porcelain", you just thought it's just easier if you broke it up with Ryan. Didn't you feel that maybe Kenny would have felt humiliated when you told him? That you're treating him like a boy, a baby, anything other than a "strong" man that you seem to admire?
I think as much as Kenny has been duplicit in his actions (own up to what has been said: since he did say you should date Ryan, why is he acting like it's not? if he felt this way, he should have talked to you about it in the first place) you too have been selfish. They're housemates and best friends; no matter how "okay" Kenny said he was, it was a pretty big thing for him to accept. He couldn't have just embraced you two and say "go for it" ask details of your happiness and whatever. he's obviously a sensitive person who's still somewhat emotionally immature and dependent on women who are stronger (you) so in knowing him and his reactions, you still went for it. You took that risk and just when it gets hard in dealing with K, you took the easiest way out. It may not seem like your fault but you prob. made Kenny feel like the biggest pansy/baby/weakling because you broke it off with a really good guy FOR him.
I also think perhaps Kenny is not the problem to why you've concluded to end with Ryan. Maybe you two were feeling "off" and assumed that was the thing with Kenny. You two must have thought about the whiplash effect to your relationship before you went through it, right? Anyways, if Kenny is a good friend as you keep saying then I don't think you would have went out with Ryan. Guys have that code thing: "bros before girls" thing? Plus I don't think you should give into Kenny's whims anymore. He can't live in a protective bubble forever, he wants to be treated not like he's made out of glass, so stop indulging him! :) Because you're a woman of strength he depends on you and since you're the one that "got away" he's always going to have a soft spot for you, eh?
don't date friends of friends that liked you. shit, don't date best friends of friends that liked you. it's complicated for no good reason.
That is so funny that you used those names! My name is Ryan and my husband is Kenny.
As far as you seeing "Ryan," I don't think you were in the wrong for starting the relationship. I think "Kenny" is being very immature and needs to grow up.
Guy wants to act like a gentle but he is overwhelmed by his emotion issue. Even you guys have not been really dating but obviously he sees you as a girlfriend and how could it possible to see his "ex-" gf dating another man?
That's not a question about "right" or "wrong", the situation means to hurt Kenny and he needs to learn from it.
do what you want with your life, why let him stand in your way? he just needs to get used to it. he should have said what he meant way back when and said he wasn't okay with you going out with ryan. it's his fault for lying to you.
Kenny, as the "nice" guy, has probably gotten passed over for his friends countless times in the past. To have that happen by a girl he really likes is probably really frustrating.
It sounds like a difficult situation all the way around. Kenny, in his heart, can't stand the thought of you dating his friend. But in his mind, he would never want to stand in the way of your happiness - or his friend's.
You're going to have to choose: your friendship or your relationship.
In my experience when someone says that they're fine when they're not it's usually a girl that is claiming to be fine. If Kenny really had a problem he should have spoke up. And if he told you and Ryan that he was okay with yall being together, then he shouldn't have been pouting about it. I think that was really immature on Kenny's part.
I don't think you or Ryan did anything wrong. It's not like yall could read Kenny's mind. He said it was fine.. which led yall to assume he was fine with it.
If you really like Ryan, then be with him. Kenny is just being manipulative... he couldn't express how he really felt when yall asked him, so he moped around in order to gain sympathy and that's not what friends do. He'll get over it, I promise. Make yourself happy!
It may not be "wrong" for you to see Ryan.. But yeah. He really doesn't want to be that guy. He may feel like it's inadvertantly him hurting the two people he cares the most about, you know? Two of his closest friends. He really likes you, though. So, to keep from having to face the fact that the girl he liked ended up with his best friend, he just saw it best to avoid you.. You know? When people don't know how to deal with problems, they typically try to avoid them. Right? So, yeah.. If you and Ryan date, know that for a good while, it may make things very awkward, especially with Ryan and Kenny living together. So, perhaps put of seeing each other until one of them moves out, or something? You know? That way it won't rub it in his face, so-to-speak, as much anymore. Maybe that would help.
As I said, while it may not be "wrong", so to speak.. It may also not be very considerate. You know? So, if you want to be considerate, talk with Ryan about it, and see if he'd be willing to wait a little while on the dating thing. I don't know what else to say specifically right now. Need any more tips, let me know. I'll try my best to help you!
<3, ~*Akarui Mitsukai*~
kenny seems like its a bout of jealousy, I saw if you and ryan can still make a go of it, do it. kenny will find his someone, and getting over you is step one... its ok in this instance to help him get that push in the right direction
kenny should have said he was uncomfortable with you dating his housemate. but he didn't and him being passive-aggressive is making it worse.
i don't think you should stop yourself from seeing what could happen with ryan, despite the friendship with kenny. if kenny was a true friend, he would swallow it and be happy for you. sounds like he kept such good relations with you because he thought you would eventually come around.
pretty much ur in a situation where u have to choose one or the other. Figure out whats more important to u
I think you should see Ryan again. Kenny can choose whether he wants to be a supportive friend. You obviously are, but I don't see his loyalty to you.
Well.. the two of you didn't even date so I don't understand why he makes such a big fuss about it by avoiding you.
Did you not read what you wrote?
"We asked Kenny if it was okay if we started seeing each other. Kenny
said we should go for it, as long as he didn't have to see it or hear
about it."
Of course he will avoid you! He said it already.. he doesn't want to hear or see it. You can date Ryan...but spare him. Did you go around his flat parading your relationship? He wants to be a good friend by letting you date. Maybe he also knows that he is in no position to tell you to not date that's why he said yes. But that doesn't change the fact that he still has feelings for you. He's hurt. He can't control it.
I kinda get what Kenny was feeling when (if) you told him he was the cause of your breakup. It's like a double whammy. Now you're telling him he's a pansy too... cause you had to break up cause he cant handle it...putting the blame on him. Nobody wants to be "that guy." And trying to set him up with other people might make him feel like you pity him... cause he can't find girls on his own so you're like, "Here! I'll find one for you so you wouldn't be a crybaby if I do your bestfriend." I guess...just give it time. You said he has woman issues so he has to fix that himself.
This is a no win situation.
If you don`t see anything romantic ever happening between you and K, I don`t see why you can`t see R. The fact that K can`t handle seeing you and R together is a serious red flag indicating his insecurities.
I understand K is a good friend of yours, but a good friend will never hold you back. I think he can`t deal with the fact that two of his closest friends went out while he`s still single and lonely. Maybe you should give him a pep talk about perspective.