Wednesday, 07 January 2009
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Separation of Church and Relationships
This is a guest blog submitted by onceuponatime0717.
My boyfriend and I have been dating on and off for a year and a half (right now, we've been on for three months). We have just now gotten to the point in our relationship where he'll touch me, but our clothes stay totally on.
This is a big thing for him; he's always asking me if I'm okay because he dated a girl who cornered him into a lot of stuff and got him into a lot of trouble. He always instigates whatever we do; I'm not pushy.
Problem? We're both active members of a church - one that doesn't support that stuff pre-marriage.
He heard something on Sunday about our bodies being a temple to Christ and how we should respect them, so he pulled me aside and said we were going to stop fooling around like that.
I was completely okay with what we had been doing, and so was he until that particular moment in time.
Was he right in telling me that, or am I just being completely selfish in wanting to continue?
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About the Author
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- From: onceuponatime0717@xanga
- Name: Kaitlyn
- About Me: I'm Kaitlyn. Senior, finally. Going to Troy in the fall- major in Elementary Ed. I teach a fourth and fifth grade class at church, and sing in Belle and POD at school. I have an amazing boyfriend, and my friends are the best.
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Comments (80)
@robynnator@xanga - agreed and disagree. basically when you have sex with the first person, you're techically married to that person.
but nowadays doesn't matter anymore. it's a mess up world. and you're right, that it takes some kind of marriage legal rights but how did back in Jesus's time was people married?
nowadays a marriage license equals a joke. anybody can have that paper and still mess around, not being married. i was married with license and we were not even married like to each other. [if that made sense] ....
it is not because we live together that we considered each other married... it is not because we had sex that we considered married... or even the fact that we are going to get married..
we just felt like any married couples would...
then again, what is married and not married have in common? nowadays this world is mad with sexual lust and whatnot.
eheh visit my site and maybe what i wrote wud explain a bit clear on this kind of point.
im not here to aruge with you cuz you are right on one part.. but then again, what does it take to be married?
@momma2babies34 - i agree. it is a messed up world, so why conform to it? God's word never changes, it always is, it's perfect. He states not to have sex until you are married, no where do i see that when you have sex you are married to that person. that's why a marriage license exists. i don't want to argue either, wanted to just point out that God's Word is perfect and just because the world is messed up doesn't mean God's Word doesn't matter anymore.
Ugh, another religion and relationship post.
To play nice, all I'm going to say is 1) respect your boyfriend's feelings, 2) talk with him(instead of to us) about this if his change of heart is really bothering you that much, and 3) if he deems God more important than you, dump him if it interferes with your happiness in the relationship.
Bottom line don't be touching each other's private parts with or without clothes until he puts a ring on it.
Check out 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
If you guys want to be a legit relationship, grow together in Christ pushing each other to being more like Him.
I'm not sure how old you guys are but I'm guessing you're in High School. Love is patient (1 Cor 13:4). There's nothing wrong with slowing down.
It's funny that the pastors and preachers that preach about how the body is the temple of christ are the same ones that slam beers Saturday nights before finishing the next day's sermon.
Talk to him. If he doesn't listen to what you're saying, obviously you're a better off-again couple than on.
I think sex before marriage is ok. I would sooo not want to marry someone I haven;t had sex with! (then again I have been married twice- but only 4 lovers in 20 years) but I'm also not a christian.
I think it should be mutual but I think you also have to respect his boundries too. hard call!
@methodElevated@xanga - OMG! I'm sooo glad I'm not the only one!!!
But, that's always going to be an issue, especially since times have changed since the biblical days and our biology hasn't. I think y'all two just need to sit down and set some guidelines for what's acceptable and what's not so they're won't be any confusion.
As long as you're with the right person at the right time, fooling around and sex can be a good thing. It isn't wrong of you to want more from him and to continue and it is also ok for him to want to stop. Everyone has different standards and morals. If you feel that you are ready to go to the next level, but he isn't it, you should talk to him about how you feel. If you can't seem to agree on this subject and it begins to cause a strain on your relationship, perhaps you need to start dating someone who will be ready to be on the level you are at.
oh, i have found myself in this situation.
here's the thing: yes, our bodies are temples and God created us in God's own image. and so yes, we are able to strive to do what is best because of God's grace and infinite love for us.
but it's not about figuring out where the line is. if there is more of a focus on what is acceptable and what is not (i.e., is holding hands fine, while french kissing isn't, for example), then i'm a firm believer that it's merely a covering for a deeper issue. clearly he feels a tug/guilt about something...but what is it, and why? there is more to it than what clothes are on, and where hands go.
i would encourage you to try think of it in a bigger context, and to a degree, what you decide is relative. i mean, what i believe about sexuality as a Christian is probably not the same thing that my mother or my best friend believes as a Christian. does that mean that one of us is misunderstanding Christianity? i don't think so.
this is an important thing to be open about, and to discuss between the two of you. there is nothing wrong with physical affection, but it should definitely be on a level that is both comfortable for each of you, and well as reflective of your beliefs. that's difficult, but worth it.
You're dating each other, both active members of the church, and then he tells you something that's important for your spiritual life and you're not satisfied with that?? I'm calling out selfishness on this one.
This isn't about separation of "church" and relationships. Just how important is your relationship with God to you? Only as long as it doesn't interfere with your love life? Believe me, I know how it is--getting physical really messes up relationships between two people with a guilty conscience about these things. He really believes in what he told you, otherwise he wouldn't have told you. I'd say he did the right thing, for himself and for you.
Now i don't believe in the whole "sinning and going to hell thing", but i do believe that in a way your body is a "temple". BUT....IT'S YOURS! Do whatever you want with it haha
He is feeling guilty and fear...that's what organized religion is all about (no offense). I just figure that if he's already touched what's the problem?...it's not like you guys have had sex already (man he would be going nuts if you did). People do weird things for religion, I personally don't get the whole thing.
If it bothers you that much that you can't even touch ABOVE cloths, then talk to him about it...communication is key. But if you can't come to a compromise then it will become a huge problem in your relationship....and maybe you two aren't meant for each other (esp since you guys have been "on and off").
Blessed Be
@robynnator@xanga - I agree with momma2babies34 because in "Biblical" times people didn't have marriage license...the only reason why we have them now is because of the government (to keep tabs on us, etc)....Nothing changes after you get married from living with each other...I should know I did it! I also believe that in a way living with each other in a commitment...but that is me. So a piece of paper has NOTHING to do with marriage...the commitment to be together forever does!
And God's word does change depending on what you believe in and which Bible you decide to follow...but im not going into details since you will just argue about it anyway...do research (and not bi-est research either).
Blessed Be
@robynnator@xanga - thank you for saying that! Living together an acting like a married couple does not make you one.
You both need to sit down and have a serious talk about your boundaries. And then you need to agree on what they are. And then you need to stick to them. It's not right to pressure a SO into doing something they aren't comfortable with.
Also, don't let your church determine what your boundaries and beliefs are. Churches are made of people, and people are fallible. Let God's word and His guidance be your measuring stick.
As for whether or not you're being selfish, you are not being selfish by wanting to go further. Our bodies are designed to want and enjoy sex. However, you are being selfish if you try to pressure your boyfriend into doing something he is uncomfortable with or doesn't feel right about doing. He has the right (and the cajones, which is admirable) to stand by his convictions, and you need to respect his decision.
If he feels it's wrong then it has to stop. You wouldn't want him going further with you than you wanted, or pressuring you to go further, so if he says the two of you can't do whatever it is then it doesn't happen. If that bothers you check your conscience, compare it to what the Word of God has to say, and pray about it.
@momma2babies34 - but i beleive in God's eyes, we are techically married. because we live together. we do things like married couples does.
In Biblical times marriage was still a legal thing just like it is now. If you aren't legally married I don't see how you can be married in God's site. Marriage is a commitment, if you haven't went through the legal process, and the marriage process in your church, then you aren't married and there is not that level of commitment.
In John 4 there is a story about Jesus and the woman at the well. She too lived with her boyfriend and was not married. Jesus never told her that she was married in His site.
I'm not saying this to be judging or condescending, but, to give you something to think about. If you want to live like you are married you probably want to consider getting married. If you want to make things right in God's site repent of living together and live apart while pursuing marriage.
@heartbrokenone15@xanga - While they didn't have marriage licenses it
was still a legal and religious procedure. Marriage is about commitment
to one another. If two people can't be bothered with going through the
ceremony and letting the legal paperwork they aren't fully committed.
@roxics@xanga - okay that is definitely an opinion you should keep to yourself.
honestly this is a really hard topic to talk about.. i've had many struggles with this and normally i ask someone who is a devoted follower and mature enough to give me this kind of advice. as of now, i don't really know what to tell you. many non-religious people are really against this topic saying things like oh religion is crap screw that and go do your thing with your boyrfriend. but it's really alot more complicated than that.
i hope you'll find the right person to talk to cuz finding advice about this topic online might not be a good idea?
@MiSS__NARA@xanga - No it's not an opinion I should keep to myself. You have every right to embrace and talk about such ridiculous practices and I have every right to express the opposite point of view.
What this person is doing is living their life based on archaic teachings from thousands of years ago. We live in the modern world now. It's one thing to say you believe in a God, but it gets out of hand if you think that God (the all powerful, all knowing creator of everything) actually cares about your sex life.
Are we to also assume this God also cares about the sex life of every animal?
Run away now while you still can.
@robynnator@xanga - A marriage license?
Since when do you need a piece of paper to profess your status with someone to God? Shouldn't he know without that? A marriage license sounds so.. material.
And to the OP - I'd sit down and chat with him. Communication is vital.
@Tom@revelife - I understand that....but why does it have to be a big thing? People can be committed to each other even if they don't go through the ceremony and all....it's only a religious thing anyway. If you aren't religious and don't do the "right" ceremony it doesn't mean you are soulfully committed to each other...
And I know your point since the ceremony is only 8-10 minutes long if you don't do it in a church, but it still hasve "God" in it and all...what if you don't believe in "God"?...what's the point of having a ceremony "in front of God" on whom you don't believe in? That is my point...Unfortunately America became a "Christian" country and made marriage the way it is today...so once again I agree with the legal standpoint but not the religious...you don't have to be religious to be spiritual.
PS: Don't bother telling me stories that are in the Bible...do research on it for once instead of following blindly...there are millions of stories that aren't in the Bible...most stories that they took to put in the Bible are only clips of a whole story/book....and the clips are what religious personal approved off to put in the Bible.
Example of something that wasn't put in the Bible...Lilth (and don't bother telling me that it's a myth either)
@heartbrokenone15@xanga - America is far from a Christian country. It adopted some things from Christianity and perverted much of what it borrowed. Sadly that influenced worked both ways.
As for the atheist or anyone who believes in a god that doesn't care about marriage. I don't think the ceremony is the point. It's the commitment, to the Christian obviously Jesus is part of the marriage, but, to the non-believer there is still a real commitment there if someone goes through to make the marriage as real and committed as possible.
What does being spiritual without being religious mean? As a Christian I see religion as a set of man made rituals and rules, often times what some make Christianity out to be, but far from the truth. What does it mean to you?
@bluetrashcan@xanga - Getting the marriage license is a sign of commitment. Even in the Old Testament of the Bible there was procedures they went through. This is made even more evident by the divorce decree that was a legal document as well.
@heartbrokenone15@xanga - And where do you get evidence of this story of Lilith that you claim to be true?
Where do you get this evidence that the stories in the Bible are what 'religious people' approved of? My understanding is that is what the books contained when they were written. I believe the evidence supports this view as well. (That being that since originally written down they have not been edited that is.)
Also, thanks for assuming that I do no research and follow everything blindly.
@Tom@revelife - I agree with you that America "took" things from Christianity and vise versa, but with somethings there is still no disconnection from the 2...like marriage. You have to go through the ceremony to be legally married in America. It's just the way it is....So basically America is a "Christian" based country.
I mean that most people see marriage mainly as a spiritual thing to each other...that is the reason why I put it in there. You don't have to be religious to be spiritual....got it? :Z And you just proved my point (in which contradicting your words before) it's not about the ceremony...it's all about COMMITMENT to each other.
PS: Sorry for assuming...I believe that the Bible are just stories, like bed time stories, nothing more. Esp since there is no edvidence of anything in the Bible actually happened....I don't believe that the "stories" should be a religion. O and my evidence of stories that religious people approved of...try the History Channel...they are nonbyest and for informatitive.