Miss Penguin This entry is in response to
this entry.
I agree that women don't seem to realize how valuable we are, but I
don't think this is 100% our fault. We are still often told by society
that we aren't as valuable as men. We still make less money and are not
placed in managerial positions as often as men. We are still
objectified by the media. How are we supposed to feel like we are
valuable as more than a sex object when no one is telling us otherwise?
Now I'm going to break down a few pieces that I also had problems with:
"...what we really desire is commitment."
Despite the stereotypes, not every woman is looking to put a ring on
her finger. I don't want to get married before I'm at least 27 or 28
(I'm 22 now), if not later. Life is long nowadays, and I have the rest
of my life to spend with my future husband. I want to take these years
for myself, to travel and focus on my career. Focus on me. And there's
nothing wrong with that. It's not selfish. If I focus on me now, I can
focus on others more fully later with no regrets, without feeling like
I'm missing out, without feeling like I'm giving something up. I will
probably be a much better wife and mother in the future, having had
more time to figure out who I am on my own, than I would be now, as I
am still trying to figure that out.
"I am not saying they're bad, but what you're giving to them are pieces of you that belong to your husband one day,"
No. No no no no no. Belong? Really? Women are not property. We are not
objects. This is part of the reason we seem to think we are not good
enough or valuable enough. Valuable is even the wrong word because it
suggests that we are an object that value can be assigned to. We are
people. No pieces of me belong to anyone but me, thank you. Obviously
we share ourselves - our time, our thoughts, our feelings, and even
physical things, as well - with other people, but thinking of it as
"pieces" is kind of morbid and it objectifies us. I don't think I've
heard anyone say a husband "belongs" to a wife, and if a woman says
that, she is considered possessive. Men and women need to stop being
possessive. Spouses are not things to possess.
"Do you carry yourself like a lady in dress and in talk?"
I don't even know what this means. Does this mean we're supposed to be
wearing skirts and be gentle and polite? This is exactly the reason
women don't respect themselves is because they feel they should be seen
and not heard.
We need to get
rid of these concepts of "ladylike" and "manly." They're just societal
stereotypes and they end up confining us. They are the reason that men
and women still aren't equal. Yes, we're different and will always be
different. But don't tell me that just because I don't want to get
married right away or wear jeans that I'm not a "lady." ...
"Some men don't
respect us today because we don't respect ourselves. We have made it
too easy for them to holler at us and get us in the bed."
I'm sorry, but even when I'm wearing a freaking down coat and thick
pants, I've had men holler at me. Men are going to holler at us no
matter what we wear and, while I generally prefer to dress modestly
myself, women should have a right to wear whatever we want without men
assuming it's okay to objectify us via hollering or trying to get us in
bed. That's like blaming a woman who is raped and saying she was asking
for it because she was wearing revealing clothing. It is never a
woman's fault if a man objectifies her. Men aren't objectified that way
- we don't call them sluts for wearing revealing clothing or catcall
at them (at least not nearly as often).
"I am tired of seeing my ladies' lives revolve around a man that isn't for them."
Whether or not the man is for them, our lives should not revolve around
one other person. That's not healthy. We get so wrapped up in this idea
of "the one" and "our other half" but we need to be complete by
ourselves first before we can really have a healthy relationship. Our
lives shouldn't revolve around one person. Our lives should be
well-rounded with a variety of interests and pursuits.
"They're looking for that woman that completes them as men." Going
with the previous point, people (men included) shouldn't look for
someone to complete us. We need to be whole on our own before we can
really be with someone else. This whole notion of being incomplete
without a romantic partner is part of the reason we go chasing after
men that don't treat us right - because we are afraid to be alone,
since we're told that makes us "incomplete." We would rather be with
someone who doesn't treat us right than only be part of a person.
EDIT: In conclusion (looking back, I feel I should write a conclusion), while a lot of good points were made in
imagoodegg31's
entry, I have to say that the problem is not just with women not
valuing themselves but with the whole way society (even our language)
is structured to devalue us.
Comments (43)
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Brilliant.
You wrote down logical statements in a well-organized manner. This is such a rarity.
Furthermore, I was specifically drawn to how you picked up on the stereotype of women being "quiet" and "demure". There are some really great linguistic articles on things women do specifically so as to be perceived as non-threatening. I'll try to send you some links.
"Men are going to holler at us no
matter what we wear...women should have a right to wear whatever we want without men
assuming it's okay to objectify us via hollering or trying to get us in
bed."
If a woman dresses like a waitress, she will be treated like a waitress. If she dresses like a cop, she will be treated like a cop. If a woman dresses like a slut, she will be treated like a slut. Do you really expect men not to judge women by the clothing they wear when women themselves are usually so aware of their appearance?
this was an interesting read and well put together, though I think it you may have been a little lost in interpretation on what she meant by "belong"... maybe it was the wrong word to use... otherwise, I'd have to agree, sometimes we are placed into the cookie cutter of what other people say we are, and it forces us to feel like chattel.
@MrBrightside711@xanga - not always true. i've been sexually harassed dressed in my clergywear, at church... i've been treated like a whore dressed in a snowsuit. she's saying it's NOT cool to be judged by what you wear, and it's not. it's not about condoning dressing like a slut, cuz that's not it... it's about condoning stereotypical BULLCRAP.
@blazinhott99@xanga - I'd agree with what you said, and I'm definitely not saying that it's the woman's fault when she gets sexually harrassed. I'm just saying women shouldn't expect to be able to dress slutty without expecting men to respond in kind. Surely a woman will attract more "hollering" when wearing something revealing than when she's wearing a parka. I just think it's unrealistic to expect otherwise.
I'm not sure where to begin on this comment. I agree with points that you both made. However, I think that some of the points imagoodegg31 made are also based off of her Christian beliefs.
"I am not saying they're bad, but what you're giving to them are pieces of you that belong to your husband one day,"
1 Cor.You are right in the aspect that we do not "belong" to people as we are not objects. I believe she was referring to our bodies and our emotions, how we should always treat them with respect so that the man you married feels as if he's receiving your heart brand new. Not something that has been broken over again, and a soul that is not tied to a lot of other men.
7:2. ... each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband... 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her
husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but
also to his wife...5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for
a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again
so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 9 But if
they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than
to burn with passion.
"Do you carry yourself like a lady in dress and in talk?" I agree with you that we do need to tear down the "lady" and "man" stereotypes as to how we should carry ourselves. If you don't want to be seen a certain way, then you shouldn't act and talk a certain way. If you don't want to be seen as a drug addict, then maybe you shouldn't take drugs. I also doubt that just because you don't want to get married and wear jeans, you're not a lady. I HATE high heels, and I LOVE my gym shoes, and I play sports, and I'm still a lady.
"Some men don't
respect us today because we don't respect ourselves. We have made it
too easy for them to holler at us and get us in the bed."
Yes, a man will try to talk to you if you're wearing a garbage bag. But have you allowed a man to bed you while WEARING that garbage bag. If so, trust that he will tell his boys that he bed you while you were wearing that garbage bag. If we don't want men to talk to us a certain way, then we need to make it known. We need to not respond to the way they talk to us, and we need to correct them every time it's in appropriate.
You made some great points in rebuttal to the original post. Now, a lot of people will assume that because you're young, that you have very "independent" woman thoughts. We ARE objectified by the media, but I believe that if an individual woman knows her self worth without having someone tell her so, she's on her way to finding a good man.
@MrBrightside711@xanga - Clothing is just that - clothing. Wearing a uniform to work is one thing, but wearing a low cut shirt is not an invitation to treat us differently. Women don't treat men differently when they unbotton an extra button on their shirt, so why should we be treated differently by men? And why shouldn't we have the right to flaunt our assets if we have them when men do all the time and aren't considered slutty? And like I said, we get treated like sex objects basically no matter what we're wearing, and that's the frustrating part. I shouldn't have to worry about getting certain types of attention for wearing a shirt that highlights my assets (and I dress pretty damn modestly, thanks). I want to be able to dress sexy - not slutty - because I like feeling sexy for myself, not for anyone else, and it would be nice to be able to do so without getting even MORE cat calls from men all the time.
"I am tired of seeing my ladies' lives revolve around a man that isn't for them."
Whether or not the man is for them, our lives should not revolve around
one other person. That's not healthy. We get so wrapped up in this idea
of "the one" and "our other half" but we need to be complete by
ourselves first before we can really have a healthy relationship. Our
lives shouldn't revolve around one person. Our lives should be
well-rounded with a variety of interests and pursuits.
"They're looking for that woman that completes them as men." Going
with the previous point, people (men included) shouldn't look for
someone to complete us. We need to be whole on our own before we can
really be with someone else. This whole notion of being incomplete
without a romantic partner is part of the reason we go chasing after
men that don't treat us right - because we are afraid to be alone,
since we're told that makes us "incomplete." We would rather be with
someone who doesn't treat us right than only be part of a person.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. This is what I've been saying for years. :| Complementary, not supplementary.
@MrBrightside711@xanga - then we agree. i'm not saying it's cool to dress like a whore... but I am saying there are cases where I know for a fact i get hit on more with my regular clothes. and i have been treated badly with my clothing extra modest. i really think that sometimes people receive mixed signals and whores are attracted to women who dress modestly because of "sex appeal"... i just honestly think one should not look on the outer appearance.
Thank you for this. I found the original post really annoying, for a lot of the reasons you state. But I didn't bother writing a response. I'm glad that you did!
Good post! What I've always wondered is why is seeing someone in a sexual way considered "objectifying" them? That's what I don't like. Sex in itself isn't dirty. Sex is a beautiful, creative, life-giving act. And it feels damn good, too. There is something wrong with treating someone like sex is ALL that they are good for. And there is something wrong with bragging to your friends about everyone you've had sex with, as if that somehow makes you better than the next person. And there is something wrong with just using someone for sex and not caring about their feelings. But there is nothing wrong with viewing another person as a sexual being, because that is what most people are.
yipee i'm glad you wrote this post... the points you brought up were bothering me too. especially the women as property thing! most women don't bother to think about what the engagement ring & being "given away" at the altar signify...it just reflects how ingrained the idea of women as property is in our culture still.
question.... why do women wear revealing clothing?
oh my god i love this.
i can't even... oh my god i love this.
@MrBrightside711@xanga - men shouldn't think it's okay to objectify women. period. you don't say "hey sexy!" if you respect somebody.
men should stop seeing women as sexual objects and start seeing them as people, and therefore i don't see the logic in your argument.
personally, if i dress like a waitress, i expect to be treated like a human being. if i dress in revealing clothes, i expect to be treated like a human being. i know i won't be, because people don't care about women's feelings when it comes to public humiliation, but i still expect it. i dress up for me, and you should not treat me like an object just because i'm in public.
Marry me. Please?
Nice to see feminism isn't dead. The phrase you can't have your cake and eat it too comes to mind. If you want all things to be equal, then you will get everything exactly as we men do. So no crying when you don't get that promotion and raise because you were out on meternity leave and no crying when a boss chews you out for screwing up.
There will be no equality until there is a completely level playing field for all parties involved.
I see your points and glad you pointed out your opinion on this matter. I guess I should clear up the tone of my blog. The tone was set toward woman who are oneday wanting to get married, no matter the age. Since the majority of my readers are in that category it was mainly focused to help them and the people I love dearly (friends in my life). I never knew it would have made it to datingish, had it so I would have made the conversation of this blog more broad. I am married and a lot of my views come from a married perspective, so in saying that let me clarify a litle better.
"...what we really desire is commitment." : By this, I was referring to those who want to be in a relationship, not saying that every woman needs to be in one or not. I know woman who are well in age, single and completely content and there's nothing wrong with that. More power to them. But this statement was attached to a series of questions being asked...." It seems that the majority of woman don't know their self-worth. And then we have those who say they do know their worth but will trade it in so easily for a good night with a not so good man. What happened to us? What happened to the pride we took in ourselves? Our body? Have we thrown respect for ourselves out the window? Why have we settled for mess? A man that doesn't respect us? A man that's clearly just trying to get in our pants, and we let them when what we really desire is commitment? Why are we doing this too ourselves".......The point I was tryin to make is why are we (as in those who do desire to be in a relationship not all woman) doing this when all we really want is a relationship? I see to many woman going around playing these games sleeping around with all the wrong men in search of someone to love them. Now, if a woman chooses to sleep around with different men without wanting a relationship then this blog isnt' for her. Let her do what she wants to do.
I am not saying they're bad, but what you're giving to them are pieces of you that belong to your husband one day," .... When I say belong, dont' look at it as a possessive caveman term, but rather something a woman would want to give to her husband. These pieces I am referring to is her heart. Pieces of the heart. I know someone right now who is doing this very thing. Giving pieces of her heart to a man she is not in a relationship with and it's tearing her apart. I know the end result because I've been there, if you want to read the story feel free it's in a 6 part series called The Past, but this was mainly talking about the parts of heart that are to be guarded. Because of my beliefs (in the Bible) it talks to us about guarding our heart. Again, the majority of my readers are believers and understood what I meant by this. I can see how disgusting it would be to see this as a possessive type of thing and that's not what I meant by this statement at all.
Do you carry yourself like a lady in dress and in talk?" ....Ok I have to admit at this part in your blog i laughed b/c that was not what I meant at all, hahaha. If only you knew me you'd see the humor. I don't even like wearing skirts and Im not one of those Christians who think makeup and pants are the devil. I think MAC makeup is sent straight from heaven and I love me a pair of pants. Yes I agree, men will holler at anything with a pair of legs and a femine face. It's sad but true. I have been in sweats and still get hit on at the gas station, yes it's inevitable very much so. But I do think (and this is mainly for myself, in no way do I try to push my convictions on anyone else) that there is a difference in being modest and just trashy. Even before I got married I would dress in a decent manner. Interpret that however you want to. I didn't go into it because I can't tell you or anyone else how to dress. if you take it as modest for you is turtlenecks and long skirts than do what works for you. We aren't stupid, we know what is considered respectable for public, and what's not. Im not saying stay covered up from head to toe (unless that's what you like) but this isn't just dress for what what men would say or not say but for us. The purpose of the blog was self-worth.
"Some men don't respect us today because we don't respect ourselves. We have made it too easy for them to holler at us and get us in the bed" ........Miss thiq said this perfectly. I don't know any other way to say this, some woman make it too easy for men to get the goodies? I dunno. like i said before, yes men will holler, whatever, we know this, but it's not about what they're doing rather how we respond to it. If they give us a "hey baby you look good" and the next thing we know we're rolling out of bed with them.....need i say more?
I am tired of seeing my ladies' lives revolve around a man that isn't for them......I agree. No ladies live should revolve around a man. But once you get married that gets thrown out the window. You're life becomes your husband and children. Not saying that a woman doesn't get time for themselves, not at all. Of course we do. Please dont see this as me saying that once you get married you loose your freedom. Absolutely not, but marriage is about complimenting one another. It's about living life out together and how can there be a marriage when both people aren't working together. In order to have a successful marriage there has to be compromise. My goal as a wife is to make sure that my husband is taking care of. My goal as a mother is to make sure my child is taken care of. My husbands goal is to make sure that me and our little girl is taken care. We take care of each other, hence our decisions are based upon the best for our family.
They're looking for that woman that completes them as men.....I am so glad you made that point. Because of the tone i was going with I didn't really target it toward the single and I preach that point you make until i am blue in the face! but this part i really was referring to marriage as completing. I do believe and I think I mentioned it in the blog that those woman who are wanting to get married oneday need to find themselves before they get married or even into a relationship.
I love the views you took at this. You really saw it from a totally different angle then what I saw it and made me realize I should have broadened it a little more to include those who aren't seeking relationships. I mainly speak about relationships b/c that's what I know best :) haha but I do hope people see the points you made and take that to heart. The media, men or anyone else can tell a woman who they are. Because they'll never be good enough if they're comparing themselves to what they see on tv. We have to discover our selfworth and identity and love ourselves for who we are even if we have a goofy laugh, or too many freckles. We're all beautiful and we shouldn't have to have anyone tell us that to know it :) Take care!
@kaleidescopeeyes88@xanga - sorry my blog annoyed you. Def not my purpose at all.
Thank you. I am still amazed about the gender expectations and how people expect relationships to be. I refuse to be defined, especially through someone else.
I love your post. Really. Its the only intelligent thing I've ever read on xanga.
@joycemiles@xanga - People may choose to wear less clothing than most people with common religious/social norms find comfortable because of health reasons (temperature), personal comfortability (they prefer not to be draped in a lot of clothing), artistic reasons ( fashion - personal preference), and because they want to show as much of their beautiful body that God created.
@Ghost0402@xanga - OR we could have maternity AND paternity leave, so the father can actually be involved. this is starting to pick up in some scandinavian countries i've heard... so here's to hoping it comes here :] i think leave for everyone sounds a helluva lot better than leave for nobody.
also the assumption that women don't get raises as much because they ask for maternity leave is kind of ungrounded as far as i can see. have you done studies comparing women with children [who have taken maternity leave] to those without? do women without children make as much and get promoted as much as men? what about women who are doing the same jobs as men but getting less [ie., looking at the scene without the raise-change-scenario]? seems like there's a logical fallacy in your argument.
and idk where the 'no crying when your boss chews you out for screwing up' part comes from. i don't think feminists anywhere have tried to campaign for legal 'exemption from chewing out'.
"But don't tell me that just because I don't want to get married right away or wear jeans that I'm not a "lady." "
jeans are a LOT hotter than skirts are anyway. (as long as they fit right, of course).