Wednesday, 24 September 2008
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What Does It Mean If You'd Been Drinking That Night?
Mr. Giraffe
There is this story floating around my school about a girl named Christina. She's dating this guy Ethan and they're really into partying. I've heard stories from friends of theirs that they often don't remember the night before because of the alcohol and other intoxicants. I don't really see the point of that because I like to remember my nights, especially if they're as fun as Christina and Ethan claim their nights to be.Anyway, the story goes that the first time Christina and Ethan "did it," she was completely drunk and he wasn't. And now she feels bad because she knows what he did is wrong. Even so, she feels trapped by this relationship because she's never had a boyfriend before and technically, or rather, legally, Ethan didn't commit any crime. Her friends disapprove and she's drifted away from them. According to the story, she hasn't become a total recluse but her friends see less of her because she's always with Ethan.
I consider this borderline date rape. Do you think it's wrong to have sex when drunk? What if both parties are drunk? What would you do in Christina's situation?
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Comments (61)
She was drunk and he wasn't? That is definitely borderline rape, even if they've been dating for awhile. I know a lot of girls that this happened to in high school, and until they got away from the relationship and talked to a professional about what happened, things just weren't the same. Maybe you should call the STAR (Standing Together Against Rape) hot line and ask them what you should do for Christina to help her make a choice in this situation.
That is date rape. There's no "borderline" about it. If she was too inebriated to make a decision, that is date rape.
She's gotta stand up for herself and figure out what she wants. And talk to her boyfriend about this.
It all depends I guess. It's only date rape if she wasn't planning on sleeping with him anyway. If she feels like he got her drunk just to have sex with her, than she should confront him about it. If she still feels that way even after discussing it with him, than her trust has been violated and there's no way he's getting it back.
Just how instrumental was the alcohol in the sleeping together? If she hadn't explicitly told him that she wanted to wait or that she wasn't ready for sex, how was he supposed to know? The polite thing for him to do, indeed, would have been to say "You're drunk, this isn't right", but it's not like what he did was BAD, just not good. Does not taking the highroad always suggest that one has taken the low road?
Again, not defending the idea of getting women drunk and then having sex with them, just throwing it out there - just how much of that WAS the case in question? Was he urging her to get drunk, or was she just getting wasted while he wasn't in the mood? Who came on to who?
This is a tricky situation. If Ethan set out to get Christina drunk with the intent of then having sex with her, then yes, that is borderline rape in my book.
However, if they just happened to get drunk and one was more drunk than the other, then I don't see a problem. Alcohol never is, and never should be an excuse for behavior that would otherwise be inexcusable. It doesn't radically change the thought-making process, only alters it.
Even if Christina's friends didnt approve, they should still have been there to support her. My guess is that Christina is feeling lost and just wants someone to talk to about this situation - but everyone she knows is pulling away. In Christina's situation, I would try and find someone I trusted, and talk to them. I'd also try and talk to Ethan and try and find a way out.
Predominantly, though, I would stop drinking and take life a lot more seriously.
It may sound tough, but I would chalk this one up to experience and try and live my life learning from this experience.
@Angelina_Everlong@xanga -
Yes, contact a local agency for help.
The laws regarding this vary between states?, provinces?, and countries.
But generally, it is not legal if the guy is sober and the girl is drunk or in some places even if she only had one or two drinks.
I would think that she needs some positive support, not just a whole lot of people trying to hammer into her mind that what happened was wrong... it'll just make her feel worse.
@MOJOJONO_X2@xanga - exactly. Support, not judgment is what Christina needs right now.
There are some sketchy people out there... I really wonder about it. If man has sex w/ a girl, knowing she's drunk and likely will wake up and won't remember, do you say something? Do you even ask her if everything's okay? And if you don't say anything in the morning, then what? Alcohol is bad... bad bad bad!
@cmdr_keen@xanga - @MOJOJONO_X2@xanga - I agree with you both.
@MochaSprinkle@xanga - It's only as bad as you make it seem. By putting it in a higher platform you give it the chance for it to become so bad.
If you can't assume the responsibility for actions performed after drinking, then you shouldn't even be drinking in the first place.
If she consented to it at the time, it doesn't matter if she was drunk or not; it wasn't rape. (Unless, she was forced into the inebriated condition as well [think date rape drugs].) But don't think I agree with what the guy did; I don't. Under no uncertain terms, what he did was shady at the very least. However, the fact that she continues to "be" with him since then while touting this version of the story just sounds like a whole lot of drama, imo. If indeed he was her first, she could be majorly confused (insert naieve) about the whole experience. If she really feels that way, then she should simply chalk it up to experience, not be with him anymore, and be more careful in the future.
if one person is drunk and the other isnt, then the person who isnt should be smart enough to make the right decision by not having sex. its too risky. it doesnt matter if they are boyfriend and girlfriend. a guy could take advantage of a drunk girl one night and the next day be accused of rape. it doesnt matter if she was coming on to him and making all the moves. the only thing that really matters is that she was not in the right frame of mind to decide if she actually wanted to have sex with him. especially if she was so drunk that she doesnt remember the sex the next day.
if BOTH parties are drunk, its never a good idea to have sex. whenever i've been drunk, i never really worried about things i would normally worry about in these kinds of situations. for example, protection. when sober, you best believe im makin him strap up. when your drunk, you dont think about things like that. what happens if you partake in a drunkin night of sex, forget the condom and 4 weeks later you find out you are pregnant (or aqquired an STD)? and further more, what happens if you were so drunk, you cant even remember who you were with that night?
is SHE feels in her heart (without the opinions of anyone who knows what happened) that he took advantage of her, then she needs to leave him and should prolly talk to someone about it.
date rape! although i dont blame him fully. she put herself into a very very bad situation. my question is, where the hell are their parents???
I wuld think that ne being drunk and the other sober would kinda' take all the fun out of it.....for both. And, yes, what Ethan did was rape, especially if she doesn't remember it happening. If I were her, I'd drop him like a hot rock. Then again, if I were her, I'd never have started hanging with him in the first place....
That's date rape.. not even close to borderline. I'd leave him if I were her. That's a pathetic excuse to remain with someone -- "because I never had a boyfriend before." There will be plenty of guys out there & definitely plenty of guys who will respect her & not do such a thing to her.
I think that if you're going to be drinking, you need to A) have a close friend with you at all times, who will not leave you alone so no creepos can take you away(i mean this for girls, obviously) and B) set a limit on how much you will drink and stick to it. I dont think sex should ever take place when two people are drunk, honestly, unless both of these people are in a monogamous relationship and have agreed they are going to get drunk together and they trust each other enough to know that the other person will not hurt them. Alcohol blurs the lines of just about everything, including "consensual" sex. I mean what if they started making out but she didnt want to have sex? You said she doesnt remember so anything could have happened between them, but any self-respecting SOBER man (as you said, he was sober) would have backed off and understood that that time was not the right time for sex. I had a drunken encounter that i wish i could take back every time i think about it. I was drunk and so was the other person--I didnt say yes nor did i say no but i feel violated every time i think of it. I think it's the principle of the thing, if you're a gentleman, you're not going to take advantage of the situation in that way. I've been to parties where everyone, including myself, was drunk off their ass but no one messed with me, i fell asleep on the couch and no one touched me the whole night, and the majority of people there were guys so i KNOW that men are capable of being gentlemen-ly rather than hornballs.
I didn't take the time to read all the responses, but there are a lot of takes on it, and I'll try to list them all as I see it.
1. Army policy dictates that if you are over the legal alcohol limit, you cannot consent to sexual relations, therefore it is statutory rape. This doesn't cover the situation where both parties are drunk, but I believe the precedent holds that if the woman is drunk, the man committed rape, and whether or not the man is drunk is irrelevant. This is a double standard, but that's how it works.
2. The second idea is similar to the first, but it doesn't discriminate based on who is drunk, and you can't both rape each other, so if both are drunk then I don't know.
3. This is more the opinion that I would hold... that if you are drunk you are still responsible for your actions. If you are drunk and lead the other person on that you want sex and then it happens, you should take responsibility for that. I personally have done many stupid things while drunk and done a lot of damage to relationships of mine. As a result, I've slowed down A LOT on the drinking. If you think you might be one to have sex with someone you don't want to when you are drunk, then either learn to handle your alcohol or don't drink. This, of course, doesn't apply if the other party deliberately got you drunk and/or took advantage of your drunkenness. In that case, it IS date rape, and that person should be thrown in jail. :) But still, the point is, be careful when/how much/with whom you drink so that you can protect yourself.
I'm sure there are other views on it too, and I am not saying mine is right, but I'm just throwing it out there...
It's WRONG WRONG WRONG to have sex with a drunk person if you yourself are sober. WRONG WRONG.
this is an awkward situation. i don't fully blame the guy...yes, it's not right that he "took advantage" of the girl, but at the same time, the girl should not have put herself in such a compromising position.
and seriously, if this girl has experienced in the past that she doesn't remember stuff from the night before, i hope she realizes that her judgment is/could be dramatically impaired.
it's a double standard, i know, but when it comes down to it, girls need to watch out for themselves and not put themselves in dangerous situations.
oh yeah, to answer the original question, if i were her, i'd talk to the guy; it could be that he just didn't realize how jacked up she was. there is no reason for her to feel trapped in ANY relationship.
I hope there's no repeat. and they're wearing protection
Hard to say what the real story is....I don't think gossip going around a high school has much merit. I am sure both were impaired ( even though the male ..was "sober")
Either way the situation is WRONG on all fronts. Underage drinking, immature persons involved, peer pressure. I could go on and on!..I feel sorry for both of them. He did take full advantage of her..if she was that drunk, and he was not. I am curious, it is stated "she has never had a boyfriend before"...and this was the first time they "did it"...I hate to say i hope she was not a virgin, but if this is her memory of her first time???..that would be terrible. I think she needs some council from a qualified mature individual, both do.
It doesn't matter if they are going together or not, what he did is rape. She was obviously intoxicated and whether intentionally or not, he did rape her. Rape is just sex between a willing and nonwilling partner. Together or not, you have to be able to say yes and mean it. You cannot consciously decide to have sex when you're almost unconscious from intoxication by any means. If I were her, that relationship would end immediately and I would be more careful with who I decide to get drunk around.
As to the general fact they're partying this hard, where exactly are their parents? Who's allowing this to occur in their homes? Plus, considering this is her "first boyfriend" how significant is this sexual pair up? She, at least, needs to talk to someone about it.
And remember that gossip sometimes is just gossip.
If you're screwing around with your boyfriend drunk and things happen, how can you call that rape?
JUST because she's an idiot and slept with a guy (like so many women out there do, and regret it) doesn't make it rape.
Rape is like "OMG NO I DON'T WANT IT" screaming, rejecting, pushing away, and trying not to do it while the other succeeds.
You mentioned it yourself, he didn't commit any crime, and there is no situation where you're too drunk to say no. Slipping something into someone's drink and making them pass out and then taking advantage of them? Yeah.
Just like people accuse date rape of being like, working a guy up and intending to, but then changing your mind at the last moment, or in the MIDDLE of it and then telling people you were viciously raped.
If you've ever BEEN raped you know the freaking difference. This was NOT rape.
Also, as others pointed out, there is not enough information. It looks like they both had been responsible for getting drunk themselves prior to this event, and if he got her drunk for this, then it's SHADY activity, but she still didn't stop him, or say no. Plus, she could have stopped it at any time, but apparently didn't.
PLUS alcohol cannot be used as an excuse for irresponsible behaviour. People do dumb shit all the time while drunk, and having sex IS one of those things.
I can't believe people are actually calling this rape.
She shouldn't have gotten drunk (it's hard on your liver, if nothing else), but that doesn't make her in any way responsible for his horrendous actions. He is not a child - he knows that she can't say "yes" if she can't think straight, and he went ahead and did it. It was non-consensual, and it was inexcusable.
Even worse, WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER FRIENDS? They shouldn't be letting her think it's okay to feel trapped in a relationship. She should ditch them, and get some real ones.