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Mr. MacchiatoNotSoLittleGravy had an
interesting comment on my last post:
I think men have this odd need to feel... "manly." There are all these ideas of what a man is supposed to be - he's supposed to "put food on the table," support his partner and family and all that s***.
I used to agree with this sort of egalitarian thinking completely. But as a man, as I got older... I noticed that women tended to like it when I was well, more of a man.
The ultimate example is the classic dinner date. Say you are just starting to date someone and she asks, "Where would you like to go to dinner?" Here's one possible conversation (this is purely hypothetical, it um... never happened to me or anything):
Me: What do you want for dinner?
Woman: I dunno, I'll eat pretty much anything... what do *you* want to eat?
Me: Hmm, how about sushi?
Woman: No I don't really feel like sushi.
Me: How about some Italian food?
Woman: No I'm not feeling that either.
Me: How about I kill you and hide the body in the woods?
Woman: *runs away fleeing*
There are so many mistakes in the conversation above (besides the obvious threat of homicide). Basically I approached this convo from a traditionally female perspective: I was seeking first to understand her wants and needs. Then after figuring out what she wanted, I might suggest some possibilities.
I found this didn't work well in dating. Girls don't seem like to play 20 questions about what they want for dinner (early on, at least). They seemed to prefer it when I approached the conversation as a man. *beats chest*.
BE PREPAREDBefore I ask someone out for dinner, I always have a list of options prepared. I live in New York City, so there are a whole bunch of "hole in the wall" places that I love and always have in mind. I think it's great to take someone to a restaurant that you love and are familiar with. That way they get to know you a bit more, and you don't have to worry about the restaurant. You know what's good on the menu and can make recommendations when the time comes. There are so many variables when it comes to dates: why should the restaurant be one of them?
BE SPECIFICI never ask something vague like, "How about some Italian food?" I ask something very specific that shows off that I know what I doing.
- "Have you been to Otto, Mario Batali's new pizzeria right above Washington Square Park? It uses only traditional Italian ingredients! It's usually pretty crowded, but it's not too bad on Thursday if you go early."
- "Have you checked out 'ino, the Tuscan sandwich joint in the Village? They have great appetizers, and their wine list is amazing."
- "There's this amazing new Korean fusion place in Chelsea called D'or Ahn that serves kimchi pizza. I was skeptical but they really are very good!"
I am not just taking my date out to dinner; I am showing her an experience. When they tell their friends about dinner, their friends will think, "Why doesn't anyone take me out to cool places like that?" Then they will tell her she should definitely go out with me again, if only to find out about more cool places. Haha, at least that's the goal.
BE DECISIVE This is a complete gender stereotype (sorry NotSoLittleGravy!), but I have found that many women are indecisive when it comes to dinner. That said, they will know what they want when they see it! I try to think like a caveman. It is my job to kill a bunch of food and bring it back to my mate. Then she can choose from the options I present her.
It's all about the options.
To be honest, women spend so much time day to day making decisions... I find that they love to find someone who is decisive about dinner. Of course, you don't want to be too decisive (ugh, please don't order for your date). But some decisiveness is always good. I try to suggest a few options, and leave the choice up to her. If she has suggestions of course, that's great too.
So there you go... my top three tips for dinner dates. I like to think of myself as modern and egalitarian, but I've found that doesn't work well when it comes to dating. These tips work for me. What do you think - are they incredibly sexist?
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Comments (239)
gimmie the food, gimmie the food!
no, incredibly sexist would be, like, "there's the kitchen, dollface, now fix me something! raaaaawr!" (which I would never suggest in a million years, if you want to maintain your existence on this earth.)
as long as you're being decisive out of respect, I don't see a problem.
If I am craving a specific food i will let the guy I'm dating know. However, in the beginning when you just start dating someone.. you are absolutely right.. girls like the decisive guy. And even if she hates the suggestion you gave her, she'll let you know and you can always suggest something else. Not a big deal hehe :D
*beats your manly dating chest* haha
When it's time to eat, I ask my boyfriend what he wants. He'll say he doesn't know and asks me what I want. I say I don't care. Then he names a few places and I usually say no to each one. I think I sub-conciously already know what I want, but I just want him to be the one to pick it. Does that make any sense? I think I prefer him to make the decision, but I want it to be the decision I would make.
thanks for the dinner suggestions! i will definitely try 'ino and D'or Ahn! I would definitely appreciate more suggestions of hole in the wall places to eat at!
What a great post!! I love it when the guy suggests a place and then acts on it when going on a date, instead of the going back and forth stuff.
great tips! no more microwave dinner dates for me!
great tips, especially the part about the caveman and laying down the options. forced choice always works when it comes to meals. and you're right about girls being indecisive- at least on my part. maybe we can call it "just too open minded to many many suggestions". an equal opportunitist, if u will.
Haha actually I do the same thing as the girl in your example. I don't mean to, the guy just makes crappy suggestions! :)
When I read this post title it instantly reminded me of a pick-up line hubby remembers from college that goes a little something like this:
Man: "Hey, you wanna grab a pizza and f@ck?"
Woman: looks appalled
Man"What, you don't like pizza?"
Apparently this line worked on at least a few occasions (not for him, I don't think he ever used it seriously). It has since become a running joke between hubby and I.
As for your tip, this one I think is true both ways. People in general can be pretty indecisive (hubby is classic-ly bad about this). Anytime you're inviting someone out for a date or even just to hang out it's a good idea to have a semi-specific plan in mind otherwise you risk the endless "What do you wanna do?" "I dunno, what do you wanna do?" debate.
SO true... indecisive men are the worst!
I don't generally ask them where they want to go anymore, I don't even ask them if they like my selection of dining. More often than not I find simply telling them were going somewhere is sufficient for avoiding monotony.
Though I will try your advice a couple of times, good descriptions, kind of a question like form etc... how can it hurt?
I think it depends on who the girl is. Some girls like the man to be in control, whereas others enjoy making all the decisions.
I, for one, like it when a man has his own opinion and isn't afraid to voice them. I hate indecisive men who are too wishy washy with what they want. Regarding your currently featured post, I would consider myself to be "strong woman", but looking from a relationship point of view, I would prefer my other half to be the one who is more in charge. I wouldn't mind a more chauvinist type of male, but of course, there's always going to be a line between "I'm the man in the relationship, and I say that I should be the one changing the light bulbs" (I couldn't think of a better example =p) and "I'm a man! You go cook and stay home with the kids, while I'll be the one to work and provide money for the family".
Anyways, good post!
Gosh... I would *love* if my boyfriend actually had the presence of mind to propose dinner at all, however vague it was.
not sexist at all! maybe i'm a little odd, but there are few things i find more attractive than a man who can PLAN! it's totally cool, as long as he can take it if i occasionally turn down the plan and make my own suggestion :)
Yes those "hole in the wall" places are the best place to go too. Nice post =]
(although the homicide thing kinda did scare me...
)
So...when are you taking me out?
Haha... we guys have somehow become very defensive about being seen as sexist. C'mon, it's only one letter away from being sexiest. haha!
Actually, as a woman, I can completely agree with this. I am definitely indecisive about dinner, so my man usually picks unless I'm totally sure of what I want beforehand. We definitely go through the 20 questions game, too, and I always end up saying "No, I don't feel like [insert cuisine here]." It drives us both bonkers, hah.
@VaultESL - If my boyfriend said that to me, I'd probably get turned on. However, that's only because 1) I enjoy making dinner for him, 2) I enjoy him being... uh... dominant, and 3) we've already established respect between us. If he didn't respect me, it wouldn't be sexy at all, and I'd leave him faster than a bowel movement being chased by a laxative out of my anus.
@a_better_me1289Â - it's because of women like you that men like me, weep at night.
Unless there's somewhere specific that I want to go to dinner I can't stand it when a man is indecisive about dinner options... or about plans for that matter!
alot of people are indecisive, so i always have my favorite go-to ideas ready no matter who I'm going to eat with. of course if its a date its better to save your best places for them :) whenever i let someone else start deciding it takes them 20 minutes to come up with a place i already know i dont want to go to...oh well..i do like decisive people though. not in a pushy chauvanistic or misogynistic way when it comes to men, but wishy washy and shoulder shrugging comes of as weak and unopinionated and thats just unattractive.
I love a man who is not indecisive.
Can't stand sitting around doing the whole "where do you wanna go.. no, you choose" thing.
I'm indecisive myself (more so because I rather the other person be comfortable.. as I am not that picky) so I need someone who will just say "I want this". lols